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    Iron Heart Fall/Winter 2025 Live Reveal - Thursday 12th of June at 1700BST

    Nuances and Idiosyncrasies of the English Language

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    • popvultureP
      popvulture
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      I used to be a stalwart anti Oxford comma person but came around because a proofreader friend of mine is basically my Yoda of grammar and convinced me. I got used to it.

      There’s also the fact that being anti is a minority opinion and it just gets annoying as fuck always having to hear people give you the spiel.

      WTB
      IHSH-IHG-BLK XXL
      Sugar Cane Coke Stripe SS L charcoal

      last edited by 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
      • mclaincauseyM
        mclaincausey
        見習いボス
        @Matt
        Joined:

        @Matt you’ve played into the problem. Because I know you don’t use an Oxford comma, your intent is ambiguous. Are you saying you invited your parents, whose names are Alice and Bob, or are you saying you invited your parents along with non-parents Alice and Bob?

        You’ve just reiterated my point here.

        Think it, be it.

        last edited by mclaincausey MattM 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
        • mclaincauseyM
          mclaincausey
          見習いボス
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          Generally, arbitrary exceptions generate confusion. That’s another reason skipping the final serial comma in a list doesn’t make syntactic sense. It’s just another stupid thing to have to think about. I’m all about simplicity.

          Think it, be it.

          last edited by 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
          • pechelmanP
            pechelman
            啓蒙家
            Joined:

            Can't help but think this is a softball for a joke?

            Ambiguous and potentially very concerning; Matt likes pegging, his jeans and his dog.

            Clear but still a little concerning; Matt likes pegging, his jeans, and his dog.

            last edited by MattM 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 2
            • mclaincauseyM
              mclaincausey
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              🤣 this is a case where no comma is best.

              Think it, be it.

              last edited by 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
              • I
                IrishHeart
                Haraki san Expert
                @Eza
                Joined:

                @Eza not in our house and I’ve not heard anyone else using it either.

                last edited by 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                • MattM
                  Matt
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                  @mclaincausey
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                  @mclaincausey said in Nuances and Idiosyncrasies of the English Language:

                  @Matt you’ve played into the problem. Because I know you don’t use an Oxford comma, your intent is ambiguous. Are you saying you invited your parents, whose names are Alice and Bob, or are you saying you invited your parents along with non-parents Alice and Bob?

                  You’ve just reiterated my point here.

                  If my parents were Alice and Bob I would have used a colon, but I used a comma correctly instead. Much like I did just now before the coordinating conjunction where it actually belongs.

                  last edited by 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                  • EdHE
                    EdH
                    Iron Heart Deity
                    Joined:

                    @Eza said in Nuances and Idiosyncrasies of the English Language:

                    for the Brits do you call a tv remote a doofer?

                    In my house, by the time either Mrs H or myself are thinking about watching any TV, we are too mentally drained from jobs and putting Baby H to bed to call any object, person, location, mineral, category, etc, anything other than "thingy".

                    Example sentences which can be uttered and understood in my house after 8pm:
                    "Pass me that thingy."
                    "Next thingy we've got that thingy with thingy and thingy."
                    "My thingy has been acting up lately, I might make a thingy to see my thingy."

                    When we are mentally cognisant though, no, we don't call TV remotes doofers...

                    Having said that, I note that it is the top-rated definition for "doofer" on urban dictionary, so there must be some truth to it.

                    Take the dive...

                    last edited by 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                    • MattM
                      Matt
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                      @pechelman
                      Joined:

                      @pechelman said in Nuances and Idiosyncrasies of the English Language:

                      Can't help but think this is a softball for a joke?

                      Ambiguous and potentially very concerning; Matt likes pegging, his jeans and his dog.

                      Clear but still a little concerning; Matt likes pegging, his jeans, and his dog.

                      Again, a colon would clear this up, not an unnecessary comma.

                      last edited by mclaincauseyM 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                      • pechelmanP
                        pechelman
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                        a colon would clear up confusion about pegging

                        last edited by endoE 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 2
                        • mclaincauseyM
                          mclaincausey
                          見習いボス
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                          💀

                          Think it, be it.

                          last edited by 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                          • mclaincauseyM
                            mclaincausey
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                            @Matt
                            Joined:

                            @Matt said in Nuances and Idiosyncrasies of the English Language:

                            @pechelman said in Nuances and Idiosyncrasies of the English Language:

                            Can't help but think this is a softball for a joke?

                            Ambiguous and potentially very concerning; Matt likes pegging, his jeans and his dog.

                            Clear but still a little concerning; Matt likes pegging, his jeans, and his dog.

                            Again, a colon would clear this up, not an unnecessary comma.

                            Assuming you mean the punctuation, and understanding that this is a flawed example, how would a colon be helpful in resolving ambiguity here? All that does is introduce the list; any ambiguity from skipping the final serial comma is unresolved.

                            The point in consistency isn’t that the final comma is strictly necessary to understand a given sentence. It’s that the consistency means that when sentences would become ambiguous without the final comma you know exactly what is meant. That’s why the AP approach of only including the last comma when needed to disambiguate a sentence’s meaning is a flawed approach. A global standard puts an end to the problem.

                            Think it, be it.

                            last edited by mclaincausey MattM pechelmanP 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 0
                            • MattM
                              Matt
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                              If punctuation isn’t necessary then it’s clutter.

                              last edited by 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                              • MattM
                                Matt
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                                @mclaincausey
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                                @mclaincausey said in Nuances and Idiosyncrasies of the English Language:

                                A global standard puts an end to the problem.

                                Fascist

                                last edited by 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                • mclaincauseyM
                                  mclaincausey
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                                  The point is that the punctuation is necessary. It’s a single character. The counter arguments are nonsense like “restructure your sentence “ instead of just documenting language as it is spoken in text.

                                  Anyway, I win 🤣

                                  Think it, be it.

                                  last edited by 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                                  • Tago MagoT
                                    Tago Mago
                                    Mod Squad
                                    Joined:

                                    I'm waiting for @Matt to say that you don't

                                    last edited by 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                    • endoE
                                      endo
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                                      @pechelman
                                      Joined:

                                      @pechelman said in Nuances and Idiosyncrasies of the English Language:

                                      a colon would clear up confusion about pegging

                                      and pegging your colon could possibly clear up all confusions here

                                      si tacuisses

                                      last edited by 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 3
                                      • pechelmanP
                                        pechelman
                                        啓蒙家
                                        @mclaincausey
                                        Joined:

                                        @mclaincausey said in Nuances and Idiosyncrasies of the English Language:

                                        Assuming you mean the punctuation

                                        I didnt mean punctuation in this case. endo got the double entendre it seems 😃

                                        last edited by endoE 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                        • DeeDee85D
                                          DeeDee85
                                          啓蒙家
                                          @Eza
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                                          @Eza I have heard my friends mum say this a few times 😂 although I think “doofer” could be any kind of object you are trying to think of the name of and have momentarily forgot.. if that makes sense 🤔

                                          last edited by 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                                          • endoE
                                            endo
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                                            @pechelman
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                                            @pechelman said in Nuances and Idiosyncrasies of the English Language:

                                            endo got the double entendre

                                            and not even native speaker, such a badass 😎

                                            si tacuisses

                                            last edited by 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 2
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