• Home
  • Recent
  • Calendar
  • Register
  • Login
  • Home
  • Recent
  • Calendar
  • Register
  • Login
Iron Heart Forum
Iron Heart Forum

Iron Heart Fall/Winter 2025 Collection Preview - Now Live

Nuances and Idiosyncrasies of the English Language

General Chat
36
148
11.2k
Loading More Posts
  • Oldest to Newest
  • Newest to Oldest
  • Most Votes
Reply
  • Reply as topic
Log in to reply
This topic has been deleted. Only users with topic management privileges can see it.
  • M
    mclaincausey
    見習いボス
    Joined: 12 Apr 2013

    Generally, arbitrary exceptions generate confusion. That’s another reason skipping the final serial comma in a list doesn’t make syntactic sense. It’s just another stupid thing to have to think about. I’m all about simplicity.

    Think it, be it.

    last edited by 7 May 2024, 13:59 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
    • P
      pechelman
      啓蒙家
      Joined: 24 Jan 2022

      Can't help but think this is a softball for a joke?

      Ambiguous and potentially very concerning; Matt likes pegging, his jeans and his dog.

      Clear but still a little concerning; Matt likes pegging, his jeans, and his dog.

      last edited by 7 May 2024, 14:00 M 1 Reply Last reply 7 May 2024, 15:11 Reply Quote 2
      • M
        mclaincausey
        見習いボス
        Joined: 12 Apr 2013

        🤣 this is a case where no comma is best.

        Think it, be it.

        last edited by 7 May 2024, 14:26 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
        • I
          IrishHeart
          Haraki san Expert
          @Eza
          Joined: 1 Mar 2023

          @Eza not in our house and I’ve not heard anyone else using it either.

          last edited by 7 May 2024, 14:43 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
          • M
            Matt
            見習いボス
            @mclaincausey
            Joined: 4 Oct 2011

            @mclaincausey said in Nuances and Idiosyncrasies of the English Language:

            @Matt you’ve played into the problem. Because I know you don’t use an Oxford comma, your intent is ambiguous. Are you saying you invited your parents, whose names are Alice and Bob, or are you saying you invited your parents along with non-parents Alice and Bob?

            You’ve just reiterated my point here.

            If my parents were Alice and Bob I would have used a colon, but I used a comma correctly instead. Much like I did just now before the coordinating conjunction where it actually belongs.

            last edited by 7 May 2024, 14:51 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
            • E
              EdH
              Iron Heart Deity
              Joined: 2 Jan 2022

              @Eza said in Nuances and Idiosyncrasies of the English Language:

              for the Brits do you call a tv remote a doofer?

              In my house, by the time either Mrs H or myself are thinking about watching any TV, we are too mentally drained from jobs and putting Baby H to bed to call any object, person, location, mineral, category, etc, anything other than "thingy".

              Example sentences which can be uttered and understood in my house after 8pm:
              "Pass me that thingy."
              "Next thingy we've got that thingy with thingy and thingy."
              "My thingy has been acting up lately, I might make a thingy to see my thingy."

              When we are mentally cognisant though, no, we don't call TV remotes doofers...

              Having said that, I note that it is the top-rated definition for "doofer" on urban dictionary, so there must be some truth to it.

              Take the dive...

              last edited by 7 May 2024, 14:56 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
              • M
                Matt
                見習いボス
                @pechelman
                Joined: 4 Oct 2011

                @pechelman said in Nuances and Idiosyncrasies of the English Language:

                Can't help but think this is a softball for a joke?

                Ambiguous and potentially very concerning; Matt likes pegging, his jeans and his dog.

                Clear but still a little concerning; Matt likes pegging, his jeans, and his dog.

                Again, a colon would clear this up, not an unnecessary comma.

                last edited by 7 May 2024, 15:11 M 1 Reply Last reply 7 May 2024, 15:45 Reply Quote 0
                • P
                  pechelman
                  啓蒙家
                  Joined: 24 Jan 2022

                  a colon would clear up confusion about pegging

                  last edited by 7 May 2024, 15:13 E 1 Reply Last reply 7 May 2024, 16:22 Reply Quote 2
                  • M
                    mclaincausey
                    見習いボス
                    Joined: 12 Apr 2013

                    💀

                    Think it, be it.

                    last edited by 7 May 2024, 15:42 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                    • M
                      mclaincausey
                      見習いボス
                      @Matt
                      Joined: 12 Apr 2013

                      @Matt said in Nuances and Idiosyncrasies of the English Language:

                      @pechelman said in Nuances and Idiosyncrasies of the English Language:

                      Can't help but think this is a softball for a joke?

                      Ambiguous and potentially very concerning; Matt likes pegging, his jeans and his dog.

                      Clear but still a little concerning; Matt likes pegging, his jeans, and his dog.

                      Again, a colon would clear this up, not an unnecessary comma.

                      Assuming you mean the punctuation, and understanding that this is a flawed example, how would a colon be helpful in resolving ambiguity here? All that does is introduce the list; any ambiguity from skipping the final serial comma is unresolved.

                      The point in consistency isn’t that the final comma is strictly necessary to understand a given sentence. It’s that the consistency means that when sentences would become ambiguous without the final comma you know exactly what is meant. That’s why the AP approach of only including the last comma when needed to disambiguate a sentence’s meaning is a flawed approach. A global standard puts an end to the problem.

                      Think it, be it.

                      last edited by mclaincausey 5 Jul 2024, 15:49 7 May 2024, 15:45 M P 2 Replies Last reply 7 May 2024, 16:02 Reply Quote 0
                      • M
                        Matt
                        見習いボス
                        Joined: 4 Oct 2011

                        If punctuation isn’t necessary then it’s clutter.

                        last edited by 7 May 2024, 16:00 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                        • M
                          Matt
                          見習いボス
                          @mclaincausey
                          Joined: 4 Oct 2011

                          @mclaincausey said in Nuances and Idiosyncrasies of the English Language:

                          A global standard puts an end to the problem.

                          Fascist

                          last edited by 7 May 2024, 16:02 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                          • M
                            mclaincausey
                            見習いボス
                            Joined: 12 Apr 2013

                            The point is that the punctuation is necessary. It’s a single character. The counter arguments are nonsense like “restructure your sentence “ instead of just documenting language as it is spoken in text.

                            Anyway, I win 🤣

                            Think it, be it.

                            last edited by 7 May 2024, 16:03 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                            • T
                              Tago Mago
                              Mod Squad
                              Joined: 16 Jan 2021

                              I'm waiting for @Matt to say that you don't

                              last edited by 7 May 2024, 16:09 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                              • E
                                endo
                                見習いボス
                                @pechelman
                                Joined: 29 May 2020

                                @pechelman said in Nuances and Idiosyncrasies of the English Language:

                                a colon would clear up confusion about pegging

                                and pegging your colon could possibly clear up all confusions here

                                si tacuisses

                                last edited by 7 May 2024, 16:22 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 3
                                • P
                                  pechelman
                                  啓蒙家
                                  @mclaincausey
                                  Joined: 24 Jan 2022

                                  @mclaincausey said in Nuances and Idiosyncrasies of the English Language:

                                  Assuming you mean the punctuation

                                  I didnt mean punctuation in this case. endo got the double entendre it seems 😃

                                  last edited by 7 May 2024, 16:41 E 1 Reply Last reply 7 May 2024, 17:51 Reply Quote 0
                                  • D
                                    DeeDee85
                                    啓蒙家
                                    @Eza
                                    Joined: 5 Jun 2023

                                    @Eza I have heard my friends mum say this a few times 😂 although I think “doofer” could be any kind of object you are trying to think of the name of and have momentarily forgot.. if that makes sense 🤔

                                    last edited by 7 May 2024, 17:24 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                                    • E
                                      endo
                                      見習いボス
                                      @pechelman
                                      Joined: 29 May 2020

                                      @pechelman said in Nuances and Idiosyncrasies of the English Language:

                                      endo got the double entendre

                                      and not even native speaker, such a badass 😎

                                      si tacuisses

                                      last edited by 7 May 2024, 17:51 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 2
                                      • M
                                        Matt
                                        見習いボス
                                        Joined: 4 Oct 2011

                                        last edited by 7 May 2024, 18:31 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                        • E
                                          Eza
                                          Joined: 1 May 2024

                                          @DeeDee85 oh ok like thingamajig LOL great thanks!

                                          last edited by 7 May 2024, 20:19 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                                          93 out of 148
                                          • First post
                                            93/148
                                            Last post
                                          Copyright Iron Heart 2025.