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    Iron Heart Fall/Winter 2025 Live Reveal - Thursday 12th of June at 1700BST

    Nuances and Idiosyncrasies of the English Language

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    • MizmazzleM
      Mizmazzle
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      Ain’t no one got time for that!

      In the easy chair with my boots on, melted whiskey in my hand. Could'na been asleep for more than three hours...time to go to work again...

      last edited by 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
      • MattM
        Matt
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        I’m just sitting back waiting for @mclaincausey ’s 1000 word essay on the history and merits of the Oxford comma. To which I will simply and succinctly reply: You’re wrong.

        last edited by 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 3
        • mclaincauseyM
          mclaincausey
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          Ambiguous: I invited my parents, Alice and Bob

          Clear: I invited my parents, Alice, and Bob

          Beyond that it just makes more sense syntactically if you think about the function of a comma.

          QED

          Think it, be it.

          last edited by mclaincausey MattM 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 2
          • Walery SmirnoffW
            Walery Smirnoff
            The Unwoven
            Joined:

            There is an opinion here in Russia that in English the sound R has become unclear because once upon a time in Foggy Albion the population had problems with teeth. This is just a theory. My ex-wife's second husband is Canadian. So he, in turn, compared the sound of the Russian language with the creaking of an unselected cart) You, he says, growl, rattle and make noise and do not speak)))

            last edited by 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 2
            • Walery SmirnoffW
              Walery Smirnoff
              The Unwoven
              Joined:

              funny of course. We do not hear our native language from the outside and perceive it as given. And foreigners cover their ears and swear))

              last edited by 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
              • mclaincauseyM
                mclaincausey
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                I love how Japanese translators convert “selvage” to “cell bitch”

                Think it, be it.

                last edited by 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 3
                • EzaE
                  Eza
                  Joined:

                  Canadian here and question for the Brits do you call a tv remote a doofer? or is that someone pulling my leg?

                  last edited by I DeeDee85D 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 0
                  • MattM
                    Matt
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                    @mclaincausey
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                    @mclaincausey said in Nuances and Idiosyncrasies of the English Language:

                    Ambiguous: I invited my parents, Alice and Bob

                    Clear: I invited my parents, Alice, and Bob

                    Beyond that it just makes more sense syntactically if you think about the function of a comma.

                    QED

                    I invited my parents, Alice and Bob. Next?

                    last edited by mclaincauseyM 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                    • popvultureP
                      popvulture
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                      I used to be a stalwart anti Oxford comma person but came around because a proofreader friend of mine is basically my Yoda of grammar and convinced me. I got used to it.

                      There’s also the fact that being anti is a minority opinion and it just gets annoying as fuck always having to hear people give you the spiel.

                      WTB
                      IHSH-IHG-BLK XXL
                      Sugar Cane Coke Stripe SS L charcoal

                      last edited by 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                      • mclaincauseyM
                        mclaincausey
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                        @Matt
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                        @Matt you’ve played into the problem. Because I know you don’t use an Oxford comma, your intent is ambiguous. Are you saying you invited your parents, whose names are Alice and Bob, or are you saying you invited your parents along with non-parents Alice and Bob?

                        You’ve just reiterated my point here.

                        Think it, be it.

                        last edited by mclaincausey MattM 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                        • mclaincauseyM
                          mclaincausey
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                          Generally, arbitrary exceptions generate confusion. That’s another reason skipping the final serial comma in a list doesn’t make syntactic sense. It’s just another stupid thing to have to think about. I’m all about simplicity.

                          Think it, be it.

                          last edited by 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                          • pechelmanP
                            pechelman
                            啓蒙家
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                            Can't help but think this is a softball for a joke?

                            Ambiguous and potentially very concerning; Matt likes pegging, his jeans and his dog.

                            Clear but still a little concerning; Matt likes pegging, his jeans, and his dog.

                            last edited by MattM 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 2
                            • mclaincauseyM
                              mclaincausey
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                              🤣 this is a case where no comma is best.

                              Think it, be it.

                              last edited by 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                              • I
                                IrishHeart
                                Haraki san Expert
                                @Eza
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                                @Eza not in our house and I’ve not heard anyone else using it either.

                                last edited by 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                                • MattM
                                  Matt
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                                  @mclaincausey
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                                  @mclaincausey said in Nuances and Idiosyncrasies of the English Language:

                                  @Matt you’ve played into the problem. Because I know you don’t use an Oxford comma, your intent is ambiguous. Are you saying you invited your parents, whose names are Alice and Bob, or are you saying you invited your parents along with non-parents Alice and Bob?

                                  You’ve just reiterated my point here.

                                  If my parents were Alice and Bob I would have used a colon, but I used a comma correctly instead. Much like I did just now before the coordinating conjunction where it actually belongs.

                                  last edited by 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                  • EdHE
                                    EdH
                                    Iron Heart Deity
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                                    @Eza said in Nuances and Idiosyncrasies of the English Language:

                                    for the Brits do you call a tv remote a doofer?

                                    In my house, by the time either Mrs H or myself are thinking about watching any TV, we are too mentally drained from jobs and putting Baby H to bed to call any object, person, location, mineral, category, etc, anything other than "thingy".

                                    Example sentences which can be uttered and understood in my house after 8pm:
                                    "Pass me that thingy."
                                    "Next thingy we've got that thingy with thingy and thingy."
                                    "My thingy has been acting up lately, I might make a thingy to see my thingy."

                                    When we are mentally cognisant though, no, we don't call TV remotes doofers...

                                    Having said that, I note that it is the top-rated definition for "doofer" on urban dictionary, so there must be some truth to it.

                                    Take the dive...

                                    last edited by 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                                    • MattM
                                      Matt
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                                      @pechelman
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                                      @pechelman said in Nuances and Idiosyncrasies of the English Language:

                                      Can't help but think this is a softball for a joke?

                                      Ambiguous and potentially very concerning; Matt likes pegging, his jeans and his dog.

                                      Clear but still a little concerning; Matt likes pegging, his jeans, and his dog.

                                      Again, a colon would clear this up, not an unnecessary comma.

                                      last edited by mclaincauseyM 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                      • pechelmanP
                                        pechelman
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                                        a colon would clear up confusion about pegging

                                        last edited by endoE 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 2
                                        • mclaincauseyM
                                          mclaincausey
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                                          💀

                                          Think it, be it.

                                          last edited by 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                                          • mclaincauseyM
                                            mclaincausey
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                                            @Matt
                                            Joined:

                                            @Matt said in Nuances and Idiosyncrasies of the English Language:

                                            @pechelman said in Nuances and Idiosyncrasies of the English Language:

                                            Can't help but think this is a softball for a joke?

                                            Ambiguous and potentially very concerning; Matt likes pegging, his jeans and his dog.

                                            Clear but still a little concerning; Matt likes pegging, his jeans, and his dog.

                                            Again, a colon would clear this up, not an unnecessary comma.

                                            Assuming you mean the punctuation, and understanding that this is a flawed example, how would a colon be helpful in resolving ambiguity here? All that does is introduce the list; any ambiguity from skipping the final serial comma is unresolved.

                                            The point in consistency isn’t that the final comma is strictly necessary to understand a given sentence. It’s that the consistency means that when sentences would become ambiguous without the final comma you know exactly what is meant. That’s why the AP approach of only including the last comma when needed to disambiguate a sentence’s meaning is a flawed approach. A global standard puts an end to the problem.

                                            Think it, be it.

                                            last edited by mclaincausey MattM pechelmanP 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 0
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