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Nuances and Idiosyncrasies of the English Language

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  • M
    Matt
    見習いボス
    @pechelman
    Joined: 4 Oct 2011

    @pechelman said in Nuances and Idiosyncrasies of the English Language:

    Can't help but think this is a softball for a joke?

    Ambiguous and potentially very concerning; Matt likes pegging, his jeans and his dog.

    Clear but still a little concerning; Matt likes pegging, his jeans, and his dog.

    Again, a colon would clear this up, not an unnecessary comma.

    last edited by 7 May 2024, 15:11 M 1 Reply Last reply 7 May 2024, 15:45 Reply Quote 0
    • P
      pechelman
      啓蒙家
      Joined: 24 Jan 2022

      a colon would clear up confusion about pegging

      last edited by 7 May 2024, 15:13 E 1 Reply Last reply 7 May 2024, 16:22 Reply Quote 2
      • M
        mclaincausey
        見習いボス
        Joined: 12 Apr 2013

        💀

        Think it, be it.

        last edited by 7 May 2024, 15:42 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
        • M
          mclaincausey
          見習いボス
          @Matt
          Joined: 12 Apr 2013

          @Matt said in Nuances and Idiosyncrasies of the English Language:

          @pechelman said in Nuances and Idiosyncrasies of the English Language:

          Can't help but think this is a softball for a joke?

          Ambiguous and potentially very concerning; Matt likes pegging, his jeans and his dog.

          Clear but still a little concerning; Matt likes pegging, his jeans, and his dog.

          Again, a colon would clear this up, not an unnecessary comma.

          Assuming you mean the punctuation, and understanding that this is a flawed example, how would a colon be helpful in resolving ambiguity here? All that does is introduce the list; any ambiguity from skipping the final serial comma is unresolved.

          The point in consistency isn’t that the final comma is strictly necessary to understand a given sentence. It’s that the consistency means that when sentences would become ambiguous without the final comma you know exactly what is meant. That’s why the AP approach of only including the last comma when needed to disambiguate a sentence’s meaning is a flawed approach. A global standard puts an end to the problem.

          Think it, be it.

          last edited by mclaincausey 5 Jul 2024, 15:49 7 May 2024, 15:45 M P 2 Replies Last reply 7 May 2024, 16:02 Reply Quote 0
          • M
            Matt
            見習いボス
            Joined: 4 Oct 2011

            If punctuation isn’t necessary then it’s clutter.

            last edited by 7 May 2024, 16:00 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
            • M
              Matt
              見習いボス
              @mclaincausey
              Joined: 4 Oct 2011

              @mclaincausey said in Nuances and Idiosyncrasies of the English Language:

              A global standard puts an end to the problem.

              Fascist

              last edited by 7 May 2024, 16:02 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
              • M
                mclaincausey
                見習いボス
                Joined: 12 Apr 2013

                The point is that the punctuation is necessary. It’s a single character. The counter arguments are nonsense like “restructure your sentence “ instead of just documenting language as it is spoken in text.

                Anyway, I win 🤣

                Think it, be it.

                last edited by 7 May 2024, 16:03 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                • T
                  Tago Mago
                  Mod Squad
                  Joined: 16 Jan 2021

                  I'm waiting for @Matt to say that you don't

                  last edited by 7 May 2024, 16:09 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                  • E
                    endo
                    見習いボス
                    @pechelman
                    Joined: 29 May 2020

                    @pechelman said in Nuances and Idiosyncrasies of the English Language:

                    a colon would clear up confusion about pegging

                    and pegging your colon could possibly clear up all confusions here

                    si tacuisses

                    last edited by 7 May 2024, 16:22 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 3
                    • P
                      pechelman
                      啓蒙家
                      @mclaincausey
                      Joined: 24 Jan 2022

                      @mclaincausey said in Nuances and Idiosyncrasies of the English Language:

                      Assuming you mean the punctuation

                      I didnt mean punctuation in this case. endo got the double entendre it seems 😃

                      last edited by 7 May 2024, 16:41 E 1 Reply Last reply 7 May 2024, 17:51 Reply Quote 0
                      • D
                        DeeDee85
                        啓蒙家
                        @Eza
                        Joined: 5 Jun 2023

                        @Eza I have heard my friends mum say this a few times 😂 although I think “doofer” could be any kind of object you are trying to think of the name of and have momentarily forgot.. if that makes sense 🤔

                        last edited by 7 May 2024, 17:24 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                        • E
                          endo
                          見習いボス
                          @pechelman
                          Joined: 29 May 2020

                          @pechelman said in Nuances and Idiosyncrasies of the English Language:

                          endo got the double entendre

                          and not even native speaker, such a badass 😎

                          si tacuisses

                          last edited by 7 May 2024, 17:51 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 2
                          • M
                            Matt
                            見習いボス
                            Joined: 4 Oct 2011

                            last edited by 7 May 2024, 18:31 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                            • E
                              Eza
                              Joined: 1 May 2024

                              @DeeDee85 oh ok like thingamajig LOL great thanks!

                              last edited by 7 May 2024, 20:19 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                              • M
                                mclaincausey
                                見習いボス
                                Joined: 12 Apr 2013

                                I think if we’re honest with ourselves, we find it very hard not to include the serial comma in corresponding speech: try saying “lock, stock, and two smoking barrels” (which, btw, is not how the fools wrote the title) without corresponding pauses for the commas. You’ll find it difficult and it will sound odd.

                                That proves my point beyond the unassailable logic offered already—not only does the Oxford comma remove ambiguity, it reflects how the sentence is spoken, which is the ultimate aim of grammatical syntax.

                                Similarly, “my parents, Alice, and Bob” is spoken differently than “my parents: Alice and Bob” (no pause at the semicolon here) and the syntax should reflect that difference. “My parents, Alice and Bob” doesn’t reflect it and I think that’s why it just looks off to me.

                                Think it, be it.

                                last edited by mclaincausey 5 Aug 2024, 06:35 8 May 2024, 06:20 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                                • G
                                  Giles
                                  IHUK Crew
                                  Joined: 22 Sept 2009

                                  I have no idea what an Oxford Comma is, Paule will know, but if I ask her I will get a long-winded answer, my eyes will glaze over and I won't remember a thing she said.

                                  I write like I speak. If I would do a short pause when speaking, I will put a comma there. A long pause gets a full stop. Those are my personal rules, and I am happy with them...(3 or more full stops equals even longer pause of total pause)

                                  Sorry if it makes reading my shite even more shite.

                                  "OK face up to it - you're useless but generally pretty honest and straightforward . . . it's a rare combination of qualities that I have come to admire in you" - Geo 2011

                                  last edited by 8 May 2024, 06:30 T 1 Reply Last reply 8 May 2024, 06:41 Reply Quote 3
                                  • M
                                    mclaincausey
                                    見習いボス
                                    Joined: 12 Apr 2013

                                    Yep agreed and that’s the random thought I just added above that sprung uninvited in my insomniac head.

                                    Think it, be it.

                                    last edited by 8 May 2024, 06:36 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                    • T
                                      Tago Mago
                                      Mod Squad
                                      @Giles
                                      Joined: 16 Jan 2021

                                      @Giles i can feel my mother aggressively rolling her eyes at the use of „would“ in a conditional clause

                                      last edited by 8 May 2024, 06:41 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                      • M
                                        mclaincausey
                                        見習いボス
                                        Joined: 12 Apr 2013

                                        How about “would of” where “would’ve” is the intent? Fingernails on a chalkboard

                                        Think it, be it.

                                        last edited by 8 May 2024, 12:38 T 1 Reply Last reply 8 May 2024, 14:53 Reply Quote 2
                                        • M
                                          Matt
                                          見習いボス
                                          Joined: 4 Oct 2011

                                          I’m not even sure they teach English in schools anymore. I’m sure they don’t where I live.

                                          last edited by 8 May 2024, 13:23 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
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