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Nuances and Idiosyncrasies of the English Language

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  • M
    mclaincausey
    見習いボス
    Joined: 12 Apr 2013

    Ambiguous: I invited my parents, Alice and Bob

    Clear: I invited my parents, Alice, and Bob

    Beyond that it just makes more sense syntactically if you think about the function of a comma.

    QED

    Think it, be it.

    last edited by mclaincausey 5 Jul 2024, 11:40 7 May 2024, 05:22 M 1 Reply Last reply 7 May 2024, 13:39 Reply Quote 2
    • W
      Walery Smirnoff
      The Unwoven
      Joined: 15 May 2023

      There is an opinion here in Russia that in English the sound R has become unclear because once upon a time in Foggy Albion the population had problems with teeth. This is just a theory. My ex-wife's second husband is Canadian. So he, in turn, compared the sound of the Russian language with the creaking of an unselected cart) You, he says, growl, rattle and make noise and do not speak)))

      last edited by 7 May 2024, 08:40 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 2
      • W
        Walery Smirnoff
        The Unwoven
        Joined: 15 May 2023

        funny of course. We do not hear our native language from the outside and perceive it as given. And foreigners cover their ears and swear))

        last edited by 7 May 2024, 08:54 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
        • M
          mclaincausey
          見習いボス
          Joined: 12 Apr 2013

          I love how Japanese translators convert “selvage” to “cell bitch”

          Think it, be it.

          last edited by 7 May 2024, 11:41 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 3
          • E
            Eza
            Joined: 1 May 2024

            Canadian here and question for the Brits do you call a tv remote a doofer? or is that someone pulling my leg?

            last edited by 7 May 2024, 12:48 I D 2 Replies Last reply 7 May 2024, 14:43 Reply Quote 0
            • M
              Matt
              見習いボス
              @mclaincausey
              Joined: 4 Oct 2011

              @mclaincausey said in Nuances and Idiosyncrasies of the English Language:

              Ambiguous: I invited my parents, Alice and Bob

              Clear: I invited my parents, Alice, and Bob

              Beyond that it just makes more sense syntactically if you think about the function of a comma.

              QED

              I invited my parents, Alice and Bob. Next?

              last edited by 7 May 2024, 13:39 M 1 Reply Last reply 7 May 2024, 13:56 Reply Quote 0
              • P
                popvulture
                見習いボス
                Joined: 2 Oct 2018

                I used to be a stalwart anti Oxford comma person but came around because a proofreader friend of mine is basically my Yoda of grammar and convinced me. I got used to it.

                There’s also the fact that being anti is a minority opinion and it just gets annoying as fuck always having to hear people give you the spiel.

                WTB
                IHSH-IHG-BLK XXL
                Sugar Cane Coke Stripe SS L charcoal

                last edited by 7 May 2024, 13:46 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                • M
                  mclaincausey
                  見習いボス
                  @Matt
                  Joined: 12 Apr 2013

                  @Matt you’ve played into the problem. Because I know you don’t use an Oxford comma, your intent is ambiguous. Are you saying you invited your parents, whose names are Alice and Bob, or are you saying you invited your parents along with non-parents Alice and Bob?

                  You’ve just reiterated my point here.

                  Think it, be it.

                  last edited by mclaincausey 5 Jul 2024, 13:56 7 May 2024, 13:56 M 1 Reply Last reply 7 May 2024, 14:51 Reply Quote 0
                  • M
                    mclaincausey
                    見習いボス
                    Joined: 12 Apr 2013

                    Generally, arbitrary exceptions generate confusion. That’s another reason skipping the final serial comma in a list doesn’t make syntactic sense. It’s just another stupid thing to have to think about. I’m all about simplicity.

                    Think it, be it.

                    last edited by 7 May 2024, 13:59 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                    • P
                      pechelman
                      啓蒙家
                      Joined: 24 Jan 2022

                      Can't help but think this is a softball for a joke?

                      Ambiguous and potentially very concerning; Matt likes pegging, his jeans and his dog.

                      Clear but still a little concerning; Matt likes pegging, his jeans, and his dog.

                      last edited by 7 May 2024, 14:00 M 1 Reply Last reply 7 May 2024, 15:11 Reply Quote 2
                      • M
                        mclaincausey
                        見習いボス
                        Joined: 12 Apr 2013

                        🤣 this is a case where no comma is best.

                        Think it, be it.

                        last edited by 7 May 2024, 14:26 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                        • I
                          IrishHeart
                          Haraki san Expert
                          @Eza
                          Joined: 1 Mar 2023

                          @Eza not in our house and I’ve not heard anyone else using it either.

                          last edited by 7 May 2024, 14:43 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                          • M
                            Matt
                            見習いボス
                            @mclaincausey
                            Joined: 4 Oct 2011

                            @mclaincausey said in Nuances and Idiosyncrasies of the English Language:

                            @Matt you’ve played into the problem. Because I know you don’t use an Oxford comma, your intent is ambiguous. Are you saying you invited your parents, whose names are Alice and Bob, or are you saying you invited your parents along with non-parents Alice and Bob?

                            You’ve just reiterated my point here.

                            If my parents were Alice and Bob I would have used a colon, but I used a comma correctly instead. Much like I did just now before the coordinating conjunction where it actually belongs.

                            last edited by 7 May 2024, 14:51 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                            • E
                              EdH
                              Iron Heart Deity
                              Joined: 2 Jan 2022

                              @Eza said in Nuances and Idiosyncrasies of the English Language:

                              for the Brits do you call a tv remote a doofer?

                              In my house, by the time either Mrs H or myself are thinking about watching any TV, we are too mentally drained from jobs and putting Baby H to bed to call any object, person, location, mineral, category, etc, anything other than "thingy".

                              Example sentences which can be uttered and understood in my house after 8pm:
                              "Pass me that thingy."
                              "Next thingy we've got that thingy with thingy and thingy."
                              "My thingy has been acting up lately, I might make a thingy to see my thingy."

                              When we are mentally cognisant though, no, we don't call TV remotes doofers...

                              Having said that, I note that it is the top-rated definition for "doofer" on urban dictionary, so there must be some truth to it.

                              Take the dive...

                              last edited by 7 May 2024, 14:56 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                              • M
                                Matt
                                見習いボス
                                @pechelman
                                Joined: 4 Oct 2011

                                @pechelman said in Nuances and Idiosyncrasies of the English Language:

                                Can't help but think this is a softball for a joke?

                                Ambiguous and potentially very concerning; Matt likes pegging, his jeans and his dog.

                                Clear but still a little concerning; Matt likes pegging, his jeans, and his dog.

                                Again, a colon would clear this up, not an unnecessary comma.

                                last edited by 7 May 2024, 15:11 M 1 Reply Last reply 7 May 2024, 15:45 Reply Quote 0
                                • P
                                  pechelman
                                  啓蒙家
                                  Joined: 24 Jan 2022

                                  a colon would clear up confusion about pegging

                                  last edited by 7 May 2024, 15:13 E 1 Reply Last reply 7 May 2024, 16:22 Reply Quote 2
                                  • M
                                    mclaincausey
                                    見習いボス
                                    Joined: 12 Apr 2013

                                    💀

                                    Think it, be it.

                                    last edited by 7 May 2024, 15:42 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                                    • M
                                      mclaincausey
                                      見習いボス
                                      @Matt
                                      Joined: 12 Apr 2013

                                      @Matt said in Nuances and Idiosyncrasies of the English Language:

                                      @pechelman said in Nuances and Idiosyncrasies of the English Language:

                                      Can't help but think this is a softball for a joke?

                                      Ambiguous and potentially very concerning; Matt likes pegging, his jeans and his dog.

                                      Clear but still a little concerning; Matt likes pegging, his jeans, and his dog.

                                      Again, a colon would clear this up, not an unnecessary comma.

                                      Assuming you mean the punctuation, and understanding that this is a flawed example, how would a colon be helpful in resolving ambiguity here? All that does is introduce the list; any ambiguity from skipping the final serial comma is unresolved.

                                      The point in consistency isn’t that the final comma is strictly necessary to understand a given sentence. It’s that the consistency means that when sentences would become ambiguous without the final comma you know exactly what is meant. That’s why the AP approach of only including the last comma when needed to disambiguate a sentence’s meaning is a flawed approach. A global standard puts an end to the problem.

                                      Think it, be it.

                                      last edited by mclaincausey 5 Jul 2024, 15:49 7 May 2024, 15:45 M P 2 Replies Last reply 7 May 2024, 16:02 Reply Quote 0
                                      • M
                                        Matt
                                        見習いボス
                                        Joined: 4 Oct 2011

                                        If punctuation isn’t necessary then it’s clutter.

                                        last edited by 7 May 2024, 16:00 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                        • M
                                          Matt
                                          見習いボス
                                          @mclaincausey
                                          Joined: 4 Oct 2011

                                          @mclaincausey said in Nuances and Idiosyncrasies of the English Language:

                                          A global standard puts an end to the problem.

                                          Fascist

                                          last edited by 7 May 2024, 16:02 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
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