Random Rants
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@Mizmazzle That was actually my first consideration on the intent of his meaning. He was a very professional and respectful guy and I didn't instinctively go to "you snot". I should have mentioned in my initial rant, cuz thats what I said to my wife at the time. thats straight shootin, Miz, thanks for pointing that out
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By contrast, I love how tipping culture has evolved in Dubai. Since covid, everywhere now uses QR codes on the table to take you to a website where your bill is calculated and you pay. During checkout, they ask if you'd like to add a tip. Pre-suggested percentages are 5, 8 and 10%, or you can enter any amount, or your own %. Most people choose 8% as it is in the middle. The waiting staff in the places my dad is responsible for love it as it's seen their take home pay go up ~30% (he knows the numbers). I think he told me that its illegal for the workplace to take from that pot too - the tip pot has to go to the staff. Another benefit is that the staff aren't all fighting over the dinner shifts, where tips used to be bigger, as the tip is spread across all staff pro-rated according to their overall hours worked, not which shifts they were on.
On the flip side, it's totally optional from the customer's perspective so there is no awkward moment with the waiting staff where you either refuse to tip or ask for a service charge to be removed from the bill.
Best of both worlds if you ask me. -
Tipping discussion aside...(I agree the tipping culture has gotten out of control)
I think the "Hard, honest, work" ethos in The States is a cornerstone foundation this country was built on. (Other countries as well) The old adage of "your word and handshake being your bond." I think that was a serious point of pride for many blue collar workers over the decades. Sadly, it seemed that trustworthy ethos was in a serious decline in the 80's-00's....Fear of being taken advantage of or ripped off was replacing the heed of "Honest and Reliable."
But, I really feel like we as a nation are starting to value that earlier mentality of Pride in our Work...and Integrity. I feel like I'm seeing it more with smaller businesses. A back to what's important type of philosophy.
Obviously, there are more than enough pieces of shit out there to leave a bad taste in all our mouths over plenty of day to day interactions. But never the less, I take a lot of pride in supporting small businesses that hold those values high...I think we all do around this Forum as well.
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@Mizmazzle well put. I will always favor a business who takes pride in their work, and tend to lean toward small and local businesses as a result. Rather than those who've become too big for their britches. Some of the businesses that have blown up out of viral use, such as DoorDash, have zero substance and offer a subbed out service, with zero guarantees. On these things I "vote with my dollar".
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@WhiskeySandwich Here in Russia the situation is completely unique. People who know how to work with their hands have disappeared somewhere. All around and everywhere everyone is buying and selling. But there are no specialists. And if you want to give a tip, there’s no one and there’s nothing for it. Finding a builder is a problem. Finding a carpenter is a problem. Finding a locksmith is a problem. Every second person is either a policeman or a military man. With a life like this, I'll tip myself.
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https://www.npr.org/2024/03/26/1196978930/new-rules-tipping-etiquette#:~:text=It's up to you to,getting paid a minimum wage.
This is a really great article on the new tipping etiquette. There’s also something that you can listen to as well. -
Hit the nail on the head, @Tago-Mago.
Now the question is: what can we ordinary people do about this messed-up system? Well, we could only support businesses that pay their employees a living wage. That would be difficult to find, especially in the world of restaurants. We would probably have to pay a much higher cost for our food and drink for those businesses to be able to meet their payroll.
The difference between most restaurants and other businesses that rely on paying extremely low rates to their employees is that companies like Walmart just turn their savings into profits. Restaurants’ margins are already so bad that without their customers paying the lion’s share of their employees wages, they probably wouldn’t be able to do business. Or the price we pay to eat out would be much higher.
Of course the argument can be made that government subsidies and assistance programs for impoverished people (Walmart employees) is the only way that these “low cost” leaders like Walmart were able to corner their markets. So with restaurants, consumers are paying the workers through tips, and propping up the restaurants. With corporations, the government is paying the workers through assistance, and propping up the corporate profits.
Neither thing is great, but they’ve both become so engrained in the US that it’s unlikely to change.
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@sabergirl said in Random Rants:
Restaurants’ margins are already so bad
I find eating out in the USA to be off the scale expensive compared to certainly The UK and most of Europe (and that is before we even talk about tipping), so why are the margins so bad in The US?
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@Giles @Tago-Mago You both make really good points that I hadn’t considered. I’ve definitely felt the “screen pressure” at times when checking out,and usually cave just to get on with it. Can’t imagine that it’s going to be fixed anytime soon. I guess the end result is that I’m going to restaurants less than ever. As far as the over the counter transactions are concerned, I’m tipping less and less.
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I’m honestly not sure, Giles. I’ve never been privy to the books at any of the restaurants I worked for, but profit margins for restaurants are notoriously bad here. I think a lot of it is high food costs and crazy rent/overhead. But ironically a large amount of spending goes into labor already—even with these tipping structures in place.
I’m afraid it’s just another unsustainable system that we’ve dug our heels into entrenching instead of trying to work out a better way.
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I think the sub-minimum wage is the biggest problem here, but that still doesn't explain why every card reader in America now says "would you like to leave a tip?". I think a big part of that is just corporate greed and a bandwagon of trying to turn it into a supplementary profit. As a result, I've been tipping less and less. The system of tipping is beyond repair at this point. My solution will be to go back to tipping only for exceptional service. Sure some may get left out, but that's business. Do good business and earn the money, or don't. Otherwise, the next thing will be tips at the self-checkout. Self-checkout in itself is a failed experiment, which I'll save for another rant....
"The greatest obstacle to living is expectancy, which hangs upon tomorrow and loses today...The whole future lies in uncertainty: Live immediately."
-Seneca -
Also, DC restaurants are now able to add a "service fee" of up to 20% which supplements servers incomes, that doesn't count as a "tip". We no longer dine in DC.
"The greatest obstacle to living is expectancy, which hangs upon tomorrow and loses today...The whole future lies in uncertainty: Live immediately."
-Seneca -
I was at a restaurant once and didn't spot that the card reader was on the "Please enter your tip" screen of the process. I diligently entered my PIN number - which let's just say on a public forum starts with a number on the higher end of a 0-9 number pad - pressed the green button, and then thought something had gone wrong so did it again. I then pocketed the receipt, and strolled out of there.
That was peak tipping embarrassment in my experience. Worse than asking for a tip to be taken off the bill or arguing about percentages is asking for a refund of a high-double-figure tip you didn't realise you'd given until you'd realised your bank account was looking lighter than it should, found the receipt in your pocket, and gone back two days later.
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Bar and service staff in Norway (over the age of 20), are guaranteed approx $19 and hour by law and tipping is not expected. I'll round up a bill at my regular spots or chuck in 10% if the service is really good.
I'll add that employers will often try to con their staff on this, especially if they are foreign workers, by paying them the previous years tariff and hoping no one will notice. I had a Polish girlfriend a little while back that worked at hotel/restaurant/bar business on Lofoten. The outfit employed about 50 people all east European.
I checked her pay against the tariffs and it was well off. Took her to see a union rep in Bodø. They offered everyone at the place free membership, and wrote a shitty letter to the outfit. Everyone got their proper pay the following month, but were then served notice on the same day. Scumbag owners.
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@sabergirl I find the whole tipping malarkey so stressful in restaurants in the US that I would prefer the food prices to be 10% more expensive, and then just leave a 10% tip. The net financial cost to me is about the same, but the reduced stress levels would be priceless!
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@WhiskeySandwich isn't the idea of this to foster an environment where tipping isn't expected, but reserved exclusively for exceptional service?
“𝑁𝑒𝑣𝑒𝑟 𝑙𝑒𝑡 𝑡ℎ𝑒 𝑓𝑢𝑡𝑢𝑟𝑒 𝑑𝑖𝑠𝑡𝑢𝑟𝑏 𝑦𝑜𝑢. 𝑌𝑜𝑢 𝑤𝑖𝑙𝑙 𝑚𝑒𝑒𝑡 𝑖𝑡, 𝑖𝑓 𝑦𝑜𝑢 ℎ𝑎𝑣𝑒 𝑡𝑜, 𝑤𝑖𝑡ℎ 𝑡ℎ𝑒 𝑠𝑎𝑚𝑒 𝑤𝑒𝑎𝑝𝑜𝑛𝑠 𝑜𝑓 𝑟𝑒𝑎𝑠𝑜𝑛 𝑤ℎ𝑖𝑐ℎ 𝑡𝑜𝑑𝑎𝑦 𝑎𝑟𝑚 𝑦𝑜𝑢 𝑎𝑔𝑎𝑖𝑛𝑠𝑡 𝑡ℎ𝑒 𝑝𝑟𝑒𝑠𝑒𝑛𝑡.”
