Random Rants
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@WhiskeySandwich exactly my point...
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@Giles Totally. The only two experiences that beat the US tipping confusion/stress for me was haggling culture in Marrakesh or trying to pay for a taxi in Tehran. Both bloody horrible experiences and I will never return to either place as a result
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Automatic service charges of 10/15/20% seem to becoming increasingly prominent in the UK in recent years...
I've always left at least a 10% tip on bills (barring awful service) as it's something I always saw my parents do when I was growing up. The moment it's position as near-mandatory, though, is the moment my defiant tendencies kick in...
I was at a nice steak house in London recent with a friend (who I respect and care for very much) who is admittedly a little clueless socially, and I often find myself dying a little inside at his civil faux-pas' ...
As we were in a bit of a rush, I politely asked the waiter to skip the niceties, and arrange for the food to be bought out as quickly as possible.
After 90 minutes, numerous delays and the wrong dishes being bought out, I've never been more grateful for my friend bellowing 'NOPE, YOU CAN TAKE THAT RIGHT OFF!' when he saw an automatically added 25% service charge
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I will only withhold a tip for egregious bad service, which I hardly ever see by my definition. My standard is 20% unless someone’s asking for a tip when none is warranted (I’m looking at you take out cashier). The most galling is when you buy a beer at a sporting event or concert. I’m not giving a tip on a $20 lite beer.
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@WhiskeySandwich sounds to me like a genuine concern on his part about taking your money and not being able to share it out due to how many different people were on the job over various days.
Meaning, thanks for the gesture, but tracking down all the workers and dividing up the cash is going to be more trouble than he’d like to take on.
By that logic, kudos to him for not just taking it and pocketing it himself.
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@Mizmazzle That was actually my first consideration on the intent of his meaning. He was a very professional and respectful guy and I didn't instinctively go to "you snot". I should have mentioned in my initial rant, cuz thats what I said to my wife at the time. thats straight shootin, Miz, thanks for pointing that out
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By contrast, I love how tipping culture has evolved in Dubai. Since covid, everywhere now uses QR codes on the table to take you to a website where your bill is calculated and you pay. During checkout, they ask if you'd like to add a tip. Pre-suggested percentages are 5, 8 and 10%, or you can enter any amount, or your own %. Most people choose 8% as it is in the middle. The waiting staff in the places my dad is responsible for love it as it's seen their take home pay go up ~30% (he knows the numbers). I think he told me that its illegal for the workplace to take from that pot too - the tip pot has to go to the staff. Another benefit is that the staff aren't all fighting over the dinner shifts, where tips used to be bigger, as the tip is spread across all staff pro-rated according to their overall hours worked, not which shifts they were on.
On the flip side, it's totally optional from the customer's perspective so there is no awkward moment with the waiting staff where you either refuse to tip or ask for a service charge to be removed from the bill.
Best of both worlds if you ask me. -
Tipping discussion aside...(I agree the tipping culture has gotten out of control)
I think the "Hard, honest, work" ethos in The States is a cornerstone foundation this country was built on. (Other countries as well) The old adage of "your word and handshake being your bond." I think that was a serious point of pride for many blue collar workers over the decades. Sadly, it seemed that trustworthy ethos was in a serious decline in the 80's-00's....Fear of being taken advantage of or ripped off was replacing the heed of "Honest and Reliable."
But, I really feel like we as a nation are starting to value that earlier mentality of Pride in our Work...and Integrity. I feel like I'm seeing it more with smaller businesses. A back to what's important type of philosophy.
Obviously, there are more than enough pieces of shit out there to leave a bad taste in all our mouths over plenty of day to day interactions. But never the less, I take a lot of pride in supporting small businesses that hold those values high...I think we all do around this Forum as well.
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@Mizmazzle well put. I will always favor a business who takes pride in their work, and tend to lean toward small and local businesses as a result. Rather than those who've become too big for their britches. Some of the businesses that have blown up out of viral use, such as DoorDash, have zero substance and offer a subbed out service, with zero guarantees. On these things I "vote with my dollar".
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@WhiskeySandwich Here in Russia the situation is completely unique. People who know how to work with their hands have disappeared somewhere. All around and everywhere everyone is buying and selling. But there are no specialists. And if you want to give a tip, there’s no one and there’s nothing for it. Finding a builder is a problem. Finding a carpenter is a problem. Finding a locksmith is a problem. Every second person is either a policeman or a military man. With a life like this, I'll tip myself.
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https://www.npr.org/2024/03/26/1196978930/new-rules-tipping-etiquette#:~:text=It's up to you to,getting paid a minimum wage.
This is a really great article on the new tipping etiquette. There’s also something that you can listen to as well. -
Hit the nail on the head, @Tago-Mago.
Now the question is: what can we ordinary people do about this messed-up system? Well, we could only support businesses that pay their employees a living wage. That would be difficult to find, especially in the world of restaurants. We would probably have to pay a much higher cost for our food and drink for those businesses to be able to meet their payroll.
The difference between most restaurants and other businesses that rely on paying extremely low rates to their employees is that companies like Walmart just turn their savings into profits. Restaurants’ margins are already so bad that without their customers paying the lion’s share of their employees wages, they probably wouldn’t be able to do business. Or the price we pay to eat out would be much higher.
Of course the argument can be made that government subsidies and assistance programs for impoverished people (Walmart employees) is the only way that these “low cost” leaders like Walmart were able to corner their markets. So with restaurants, consumers are paying the workers through tips, and propping up the restaurants. With corporations, the government is paying the workers through assistance, and propping up the corporate profits.
Neither thing is great, but they’ve both become so engrained in the US that it’s unlikely to change.
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@sabergirl said in Random Rants:
Restaurants’ margins are already so bad
I find eating out in the USA to be off the scale expensive compared to certainly The UK and most of Europe (and that is before we even talk about tipping), so why are the margins so bad in The US?
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@Giles @Tago-Mago You both make really good points that I hadn’t considered. I’ve definitely felt the “screen pressure” at times when checking out,and usually cave just to get on with it. Can’t imagine that it’s going to be fixed anytime soon. I guess the end result is that I’m going to restaurants less than ever. As far as the over the counter transactions are concerned, I’m tipping less and less.
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I’m honestly not sure, Giles. I’ve never been privy to the books at any of the restaurants I worked for, but profit margins for restaurants are notoriously bad here. I think a lot of it is high food costs and crazy rent/overhead. But ironically a large amount of spending goes into labor already—even with these tipping structures in place.
I’m afraid it’s just another unsustainable system that we’ve dug our heels into entrenching instead of trying to work out a better way.
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I think the sub-minimum wage is the biggest problem here, but that still doesn't explain why every card reader in America now says "would you like to leave a tip?". I think a big part of that is just corporate greed and a bandwagon of trying to turn it into a supplementary profit. As a result, I've been tipping less and less. The system of tipping is beyond repair at this point. My solution will be to go back to tipping only for exceptional service. Sure some may get left out, but that's business. Do good business and earn the money, or don't. Otherwise, the next thing will be tips at the self-checkout. Self-checkout in itself is a failed experiment, which I'll save for another rant....
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