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  • M
    Mizmazzle
    見習いボス
    @WhiskeySandwich
    Joined: 29 Jun 2021

    @WhiskeySandwich sounds to me like a genuine concern on his part about taking your money and not being able to share it out due to how many different people were on the job over various days.

    Meaning, thanks for the gesture, but tracking down all the workers and dividing up the cash is going to be more trouble than he’d like to take on.

    By that logic, kudos to him for not just taking it and pocketing it himself.

    In the easy chair with my boots on, melted whiskey in my hand. Could'na been asleep for more than three hours...time to go to work again...

    last edited by 3 Apr 2024, 15:02 W 1 Reply Last reply 3 Apr 2024, 15:09 Reply Quote 1
    • W
      WhiskeySandwich
      啓蒙家
      @Mizmazzle
      Joined: 1 Mar 2023

      @Mizmazzle That was actually my first consideration on the intent of his meaning. He was a very professional and respectful guy and I didn't instinctively go to "you snot". I should have mentioned in my initial rant, cuz thats what I said to my wife at the time. thats straight shootin, Miz, thanks for pointing that out

      "The greatest obstacle to living is expectancy, which hangs upon tomorrow and loses today...The whole future lies in uncertainty: Live immediately."
      -Seneca

      last edited by 3 Apr 2024, 15:09 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
      • E
        EdH
        Iron Heart Deity
        Joined: 2 Jan 2022

        By contrast, I love how tipping culture has evolved in Dubai. Since covid, everywhere now uses QR codes on the table to take you to a website where your bill is calculated and you pay. During checkout, they ask if you'd like to add a tip. Pre-suggested percentages are 5, 8 and 10%, or you can enter any amount, or your own %. Most people choose 8% as it is in the middle. The waiting staff in the places my dad is responsible for love it as it's seen their take home pay go up ~30% (he knows the numbers). I think he told me that its illegal for the workplace to take from that pot too - the tip pot has to go to the staff. Another benefit is that the staff aren't all fighting over the dinner shifts, where tips used to be bigger, as the tip is spread across all staff pro-rated according to their overall hours worked, not which shifts they were on.
        On the flip side, it's totally optional from the customer's perspective so there is no awkward moment with the waiting staff where you either refuse to tip or ask for a service charge to be removed from the bill.
        Best of both worlds if you ask me.

        Take the dive...

        last edited by 3 Apr 2024, 15:16 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
        • M
          Mizmazzle
          見習いボス
          Joined: 29 Jun 2021

          Tipping discussion aside...(I agree the tipping culture has gotten out of control)

          I think the "Hard, honest, work" ethos in The States is a cornerstone foundation this country was built on. (Other countries as well) The old adage of "your word and handshake being your bond." I think that was a serious point of pride for many blue collar workers over the decades. Sadly, it seemed that trustworthy ethos was in a serious decline in the 80's-00's....Fear of being taken advantage of or ripped off was replacing the heed of "Honest and Reliable."

          But, I really feel like we as a nation are starting to value that earlier mentality of Pride in our Work...and Integrity. I feel like I'm seeing it more with smaller businesses. A back to what's important type of philosophy.

          Obviously, there are more than enough pieces of shit out there to leave a bad taste in all our mouths over plenty of day to day interactions. But never the less, I take a lot of pride in supporting small businesses that hold those values high...I think we all do around this Forum as well.

          In the easy chair with my boots on, melted whiskey in my hand. Could'na been asleep for more than three hours...time to go to work again...

          last edited by 3 Apr 2024, 15:37 W 1 Reply Last reply 3 Apr 2024, 15:46 Reply Quote 3
          • W
            WhiskeySandwich
            啓蒙家
            @Mizmazzle
            Joined: 1 Mar 2023

            @Mizmazzle well put. I will always favor a business who takes pride in their work, and tend to lean toward small and local businesses as a result. Rather than those who've become too big for their britches. Some of the businesses that have blown up out of viral use, such as DoorDash, have zero substance and offer a subbed out service, with zero guarantees. On these things I "vote with my dollar".

            "The greatest obstacle to living is expectancy, which hangs upon tomorrow and loses today...The whole future lies in uncertainty: Live immediately."
            -Seneca

            last edited by 3 Apr 2024, 15:46 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
            • W
              Walery Smirnoff
              The Unwoven
              @WhiskeySandwich
              Joined: 15 May 2023

              @WhiskeySandwich Here in Russia the situation is completely unique. People who know how to work with their hands have disappeared somewhere. All around and everywhere everyone is buying and selling. But there are no specialists. And if you want to give a tip, there’s no one and there’s nothing for it. Finding a builder is a problem. Finding a carpenter is a problem. Finding a locksmith is a problem. Every second person is either a policeman or a military man. With a life like this, I'll tip myself.

              last edited by 4 Apr 2024, 07:07 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 5
              • J
                Jett129
                見習いボス
                Joined: 17 Aug 2011

                https://www.npr.org/2024/03/26/1196978930/new-rules-tipping-etiquette#:~:text=It's up to you to,getting paid a minimum wage.
                This is a really great article on the new tipping etiquette. There’s also something that you can listen to as well.

                last edited by 4 Apr 2024, 22:02 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                • G
                  Giles
                  IHUK Crew
                  Joined: 22 Sept 2009

                  WTF. I'm prepared to acknowledge that there are guidelines, but not something that says rules. THEY ARE NOT RULES, and the more aresholes like the author of that article call them rules, the more people will think that they are more than guidelines....

                  "OK face up to it - you're useless but generally pretty honest and straightforward . . . it's a rare combination of qualities that I have come to admire in you" - Geo 2011

                  last edited by 5 Apr 2024, 08:55 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 4
                  • T
                    Tago Mago
                    Mod Squad
                    Joined: 16 Jan 2021

                    So basically tipping supports a system that exploits employees by paying them sub-living wages. Sounds like a great system...

                    last edited by 5 Apr 2024, 09:00 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 4
                    • S
                      sabergirl
                      見習いボス
                      Joined: 4 Oct 2013

                      Hit the nail on the head, @Tago-Mago.

                      Now the question is: what can we ordinary people do about this messed-up system? Well, we could only support businesses that pay their employees a living wage. That would be difficult to find, especially in the world of restaurants. We would probably have to pay a much higher cost for our food and drink for those businesses to be able to meet their payroll.

                      The difference between most restaurants and other businesses that rely on paying extremely low rates to their employees is that companies like Walmart just turn their savings into profits. Restaurants’ margins are already so bad that without their customers paying the lion’s share of their employees wages, they probably wouldn’t be able to do business. Or the price we pay to eat out would be much higher.

                      Of course the argument can be made that government subsidies and assistance programs for impoverished people (Walmart employees) is the only way that these “low cost” leaders like Walmart were able to corner their markets. So with restaurants, consumers are paying the workers through tips, and propping up the restaurants. With corporations, the government is paying the workers through assistance, and propping up the corporate profits.

                      Neither thing is great, but they’ve both become so engrained in the US that it’s unlikely to change.

                      last edited by 5 Apr 2024, 11:45 G W I 3 Replies Last reply 5 Apr 2024, 11:55 Reply Quote 5
                      • G
                        Giles
                        IHUK Crew
                        @sabergirl
                        Joined: 22 Sept 2009

                        @sabergirl said in Random Rants:

                        Restaurants’ margins are already so bad

                        I find eating out in the USA to be off the scale expensive compared to certainly The UK and most of Europe (and that is before we even talk about tipping), so why are the margins so bad in The US?

                        "OK face up to it - you're useless but generally pretty honest and straightforward . . . it's a rare combination of qualities that I have come to admire in you" - Geo 2011

                        last edited by 5 Apr 2024, 11:55 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                        • J
                          Jett129
                          見習いボス
                          Joined: 17 Aug 2011

                          @Giles @Tago-Mago You both make really good points that I hadn’t considered. I’ve definitely felt the “screen pressure” at times when checking out,and usually cave just to get on with it. Can’t imagine that it’s going to be fixed anytime soon. I guess the end result is that I’m going to restaurants less than ever. As far as the over the counter transactions are concerned, I’m tipping less and less.

                          last edited by 5 Apr 2024, 12:05 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                          • S
                            sabergirl
                            見習いボス
                            Joined: 4 Oct 2013

                            I’m honestly not sure, Giles. I’ve never been privy to the books at any of the restaurants I worked for, but profit margins for restaurants are notoriously bad here. I think a lot of it is high food costs and crazy rent/overhead. But ironically a large amount of spending goes into labor already—even with these tipping structures in place.

                            I’m afraid it’s just another unsustainable system that we’ve dug our heels into entrenching instead of trying to work out a better way.

                            last edited by 5 Apr 2024, 12:06 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 2
                            • W
                              WhiskeySandwich
                              啓蒙家
                              @sabergirl
                              Joined: 1 Mar 2023

                              I think the sub-minimum wage is the biggest problem here, but that still doesn't explain why every card reader in America now says "would you like to leave a tip?". I think a big part of that is just corporate greed and a bandwagon of trying to turn it into a supplementary profit. As a result, I've been tipping less and less. The system of tipping is beyond repair at this point. My solution will be to go back to tipping only for exceptional service. Sure some may get left out, but that's business. Do good business and earn the money, or don't. Otherwise, the next thing will be tips at the self-checkout. Self-checkout in itself is a failed experiment, which I'll save for another rant....

                              "The greatest obstacle to living is expectancy, which hangs upon tomorrow and loses today...The whole future lies in uncertainty: Live immediately."
                              -Seneca

                              last edited by 5 Apr 2024, 13:37 F 1 Reply Last reply 5 Apr 2024, 16:02 Reply Quote 2
                              • W
                                WhiskeySandwich
                                啓蒙家
                                Joined: 1 Mar 2023

                                Also, DC restaurants are now able to add a "service fee" of up to 20% which supplements servers incomes, that doesn't count as a "tip". We no longer dine in DC.

                                "The greatest obstacle to living is expectancy, which hangs upon tomorrow and loses today...The whole future lies in uncertainty: Live immediately."
                                -Seneca

                                last edited by 5 Apr 2024, 13:42 T 1 Reply Last reply 5 Apr 2024, 15:44 Reply Quote 1
                                • E
                                  EdH
                                  Iron Heart Deity
                                  Joined: 2 Jan 2022

                                  I was at a restaurant once and didn't spot that the card reader was on the "Please enter your tip" screen of the process. I diligently entered my PIN number - which let's just say on a public forum starts with a number on the higher end of a 0-9 number pad - pressed the green button, and then thought something had gone wrong so did it again. I then pocketed the receipt, and strolled out of there.

                                  That was peak tipping embarrassment in my experience. Worse than asking for a tip to be taken off the bill or arguing about percentages is asking for a refund of a high-double-figure tip you didn't realise you'd given until you'd realised your bank account was looking lighter than it should, found the receipt in your pocket, and gone back two days later.

                                  Take the dive...

                                  last edited by 5 Apr 2024, 14:14 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 2
                                  • G
                                    Giles
                                    IHUK Crew
                                    Joined: 22 Sept 2009

                                    OOF........

                                    "OK face up to it - you're useless but generally pretty honest and straightforward . . . it's a rare combination of qualities that I have come to admire in you" - Geo 2011

                                    last edited by 5 Apr 2024, 14:15 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                    • N
                                      neph93
                                      見習いボス
                                      Joined: 18 Aug 2014

                                      Bar and service staff in Norway (over the age of 20), are guaranteed approx $19 and hour by law and tipping is not expected. I'll round up a bill at my regular spots or chuck in 10% if the service is really good.

                                      I'll add that employers will often try to con their staff on this, especially if they are foreign workers, by paying them the previous years tariff and hoping no one will notice. I had a Polish girlfriend a little while back that worked at hotel/restaurant/bar business on Lofoten. The outfit employed about 50 people all east European.

                                      I checked her pay against the tariffs and it was well off. Took her to see a union rep in Bodø. They offered everyone at the place free membership, and wrote a shitty letter to the outfit. Everyone got their proper pay the following month, but were then served notice on the same day. Scumbag owners.

                                      “Some of those that work forces
                                      Are the same that burn crosses”

                                      • Virginia Woolf
                                      last edited by neph93 4 May 2024, 14:57 5 Apr 2024, 14:52 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                      • G
                                        Giles
                                        IHUK Crew
                                        Joined: 22 Sept 2009

                                        Shit bag Lofotens I say......

                                        "OK face up to it - you're useless but generally pretty honest and straightforward . . . it's a rare combination of qualities that I have come to admire in you" - Geo 2011

                                        last edited by 5 Apr 2024, 15:05 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                        • I
                                          IrishHeart
                                          Haraki san Expert
                                          @sabergirl
                                          Joined: 1 Mar 2023

                                          @sabergirl I find the whole tipping malarkey so stressful in restaurants in the US that I would prefer the food prices to be 10% more expensive, and then just leave a 10% tip. The net financial cost to me is about the same, but the reduced stress levels would be priceless!

                                          last edited by 5 Apr 2024, 15:12 E 1 Reply Last reply 5 Apr 2024, 15:55 Reply Quote 1
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