Random Rants

[sabergirl]

Hit the nail on the head, @Tago-Mago.

Now the question is: what can we ordinary people do about this messed-up system? Well, we could only support businesses that pay their employees a living wage. That would be difficult to find, especially in the world of restaurants. We would probably have to pay a much higher cost for our food and drink for those businesses to be able to meet their payroll.

The difference between most restaurants and other businesses that rely on paying extremely low rates to their employees is that companies like Walmart just turn their savings into profits. Restaurants’ margins are already so bad that without their customers paying the lion’s share of their employees wages, they probably wouldn’t be able to do business. Or the price we pay to eat out would be much higher.

Of course the argument can be made that government subsidies and assistance programs for impoverished people (Walmart employees) is the only way that these “low cost” leaders like Walmart were able to corner their markets. So with restaurants, consumers are paying the workers through tips, and propping up the restaurants. With corporations, the government is paying the workers through assistance, and propping up the corporate profits.

Neither thing is great, but they’ve both become so engrained in the US that it’s unlikely to change.

[Giles]

@sabergirl said in Random Rants:

Restaurants’ margins are already so bad

I find eating out in the USA to be off the scale expensive compared to certainly The UK and most of Europe (and that is before we even talk about tipping), so why are the margins so bad in The US?

[Jett129]

@Giles @Tago-Mago You both make really good points that I hadn’t considered. I’ve definitely felt the “screen pressure” at times when checking out,and usually cave just to get on with it. Can’t imagine that it’s going to be fixed anytime soon. I guess the end result is that I’m going to restaurants less than ever. As far as the over the counter transactions are concerned, I’m tipping less and less.

[sabergirl]

I’m honestly not sure, Giles. I’ve never been privy to the books at any of the restaurants I worked for, but profit margins for restaurants are notoriously bad here. I think a lot of it is high food costs and crazy rent/overhead. But ironically a large amount of spending goes into labor already—even with these tipping structures in place.

I’m afraid it’s just another unsustainable system that we’ve dug our heels into entrenching instead of trying to work out a better way.

[WhiskeySandwich]

I think the sub-minimum wage is the biggest problem here, but that still doesn't explain why every card reader in America now says "would you like to leave a tip?". I think a big part of that is just corporate greed and a bandwagon of trying to turn it into a supplementary profit. As a result, I've been tipping less and less. The system of tipping is beyond repair at this point. My solution will be to go back to tipping only for exceptional service. Sure some may get left out, but that's business. Do good business and earn the money, or don't. Otherwise, the next thing will be tips at the self-checkout. Self-checkout in itself is a failed experiment, which I'll save for another rant....

[WhiskeySandwich]

Also, DC restaurants are now able to add a "service fee" of up to 20% which supplements servers incomes, that doesn't count as a "tip". We no longer dine in DC.

[EdH]

I was at a restaurant once and didn't spot that the card reader was on the "Please enter your tip" screen of the process. I diligently entered my PIN number - which let's just say on a public forum starts with a number on the higher end of a 0-9 number pad - pressed the green button, and then thought something had gone wrong so did it again. I then pocketed the receipt, and strolled out of there.

That was peak tipping embarrassment in my experience. Worse than asking for a tip to be taken off the bill or arguing about percentages is asking for a refund of a high-double-figure tip you didn't realise you'd given until you'd realised your bank account was looking lighter than it should, found the receipt in your pocket, and gone back two days later.

[Giles]

OOF........

[neph93]

Bar and service staff in Norway (over the age of 20), are guaranteed approx $19 and hour by law and tipping is not expected. I'll round up a bill at my regular spots or chuck in 10% if the service is really good.

I'll add that employers will often try to con their staff on this, especially if they are foreign workers, by paying them the previous years tariff and hoping no one will notice. I had a Polish girlfriend a little while back that worked at hotel/restaurant/bar business on Lofoten. The outfit employed about 50 people all east European.

I checked her pay against the tariffs and it was well off. Took her to see a union rep in Bodø. They offered everyone at the place free membership, and wrote a shitty letter to the outfit. Everyone got their proper pay the following month, but were then served notice on the same day. Scumbag owners.

[Giles]

Shit bag Lofotens I say......

[IrishHeart]

@sabergirl I find the whole tipping malarkey so stressful in restaurants in the US that I would prefer the food prices to be 10% more expensive, and then just leave a 10% tip. The net financial cost to me is about the same, but the reduced stress levels would be priceless!

[T4920]

@WhiskeySandwich isn't the idea of this to foster an environment where tipping isn't expected, but reserved exclusively for exceptional service?

[EdH]

@IrishHeart I recall hearing about a restaurant in NYC which did exactly this. They jacked up their prices by 10% (back when that was the standard tip) and then forbade tipping altogether. They increased all service staff's take-home pay accordingly, not just the front of house staff. Apparently it was wildly popular, and really good for staff that had young families and commitments like that because they didn't need to fight over the better-tipping dinner service.

I wanna say I read about it in one of the Freakonomics books or heard about it on the podcast they used to do, but I'm not 100% on that.

[flannel slut]

Enjoying reading over the tip discussion y’all @WhiskeySandwich you hit a nerve touching on self checkout. Majority of US grocery stores have about 15 to 20 lanes with only 2-3 ever open. The greed to staff as little as possible is disturbing at best… I also catch myself daydreaming of spear tackling one of those 6 foot tall roomba robot cleaners every time I’m in the produce section.

[WhiskeySandwich]

@T4920 the idea of what? the "service charge"? i think its just overcomplicating the solution by calling "this" "that", and not really resolving anything. What @IrishHeart or what @EdH said would probably be better imo. Just leave it out. Charge the price and leave it at that. Same goes with the car market dealer markups (will save for another rant lol).

[WhiskeySandwich]

@flannel-slut 100%

[T4920]

@WhiskeySandwich said in Random Rants:

@T4920 the idea of what? the "service charge"? i think its just overcomplicating the solution by calling "this" "that", and not really resolving anything.

I just mean that if you know there's gonna be 20% charge before you sit down to eat, that should at least buy you the peace of mind of knowing your server is being fairly compensated for their work, and remove any awkwardness/uncertainty regarding a tip when clearing your cheque.

If it's just a means of the establishment making their pricing seem more affordable than it actually is, and the servers still expect a tip on top of that, then I agree it's a scummy practice worthy of boycotting!

[IrishHeart]

@EdH brilliant. If you ever find out the name of that restaurant, I’ll be sure to visit next time I’m over!

[endo]

Overall statutory minimum wage seems to help for people like bar and restaurant staff. Here in Germany it's 12,41 Euro atm, not quite as in Norway, but it was a good improvement under the current government.

[WhiskeySandwich]

@T4920 I'm just not down with convoluted inconsistent cost models. Frankly, the last thing I want to do when I go out to eat is extra math calculations and concern myself with employee-employer business relations. Their wage negotiations should not affect the customer in any visible way. Food, cars, clothes, are all products for sale and should follow a one-price model. You list a price, you pay that price, the end. I'm not the Bistro's CFO. Ease of calculation of the bill goes a long way for repeat customers at restaurants. We go out to eat for a stress break and this stuff doesn't help lol. But yeah, scummy businesses confuse their customers about price and don't properly pay their staff, so boycott it is