IH-634-XHS - 25oz Selvedge Denim Straight Cut Jeans - Indigo
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One more question guys. Anyone who has ordered internationally from iron heart. Do you have to pay extra taxes ? (You know the usual +20-30%?) One reason I ordered was because iron heart Germany webpage says 395£. Vat included. This morning I woke up to a nice email saying. Hey, you know, you probably will pay extra 20-30% for taxes and duties?
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@rimaarts https://forum.ironheart.co.uk//post/880433
VAT is a sales tax in Europe, not related to import duty to the USA
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@Alex I'm in uk...
I'm aware that there's like 5 possible import charges, but if shop page says vat included, shipping policy says "all taxes included", I expect to have paid vat to iron heart. I dont expect uk government asking me for vat.
All other charges I dont think I've ever paid more than 50£ on a 500£ order.
The question is, do german customers pay 395€ or they pay almost 500€?
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@rimaarts said in IH-634-XHS - 25oz Selvedge Denim Straight Cut Jeans - Indigo:
dont expect uk government asking me for vat.
At the risk of being blunt, you should expect the UK government to take VAT and possibly duties on any order from the EU (or any other place outside the UK for that matter). This policy has been in place since Brexit fully took effect as far as I know. It is the buyer's responsibility to check for any possible taxes and duties levied on goods coming into the country:
https://www.gov.uk/goods-sent-from-abroad/tax-and-duty
Could this be stated more prominently on IH Germany's website beyond their FAQs (What about customs duties?) - possibly. Are they to blame - IMO no.
And to answer your question, a German customer would pay €395 including 19% VAT. The additional duties and taxes are levied by the UK government.
I understand your frustration but I think you are directing that frustration at the wrong people
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@Tago-Mago "And to answer your question, a German customer would pay €395 including 19% VAT." There you go. 395€ including vat. AND another vat charged by uk government?
If as you say for German customers, it's 395 including 19% vat, either international orders should be disabled, or German vat deducted. I would have thought iron heart is big enough not to make customers reclaim vat themselves.
However after a brief email exchange, turns out that invoice is 395€ with 0 vat. So it apparently actually is 395 including vat for German customers but 395 EXCLUDING vat for international customers? I don't think my frustration is THAT misplaced...
Now it's not my first time shopping internationally, so i am aware about charges, but it IS my first time questioning if I'll be paying vat once or twice...
Anyway. Order cancelled. And at least I got an email heads up for incoming charges before shipping. Lesson learned to never order iron heart internationally.
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This post is deleted!
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@Alex more than once during email I mentioned, im aware of import duties. But they are usually WAY less than 20-30%. As an example I don't think I've paid more than 30-40£ duties +20% vat on a 500£ order.
Vat on the other hand usually 20%. And yes. I'm aware. Uk government wants vat. However noone should be paying vat twice. If I pay it to uk government, I shouldn't be paying it to Germany.
And when i questioned will I be charged vat if shop states vat included, i was resent invoice "395€. Taxes 0". I said well if I'll have to pay 500€, cancel my order. Order was cancelled.
So forgive me, but is my frustration misplaced? 395 vat included for eu customers but 395 vat excluded for outside eu?
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@rimaarts said in IH-634-XHS - 25oz Selvedge Denim Straight Cut Jeans - Indigo:
So forgive me, but is my frustration misplaced? 395 vat included for eu customers but 395 vat excluded for outside eu?
The sale is not VAT excluded, it is just shipped DAP and as such you have to pay all import duties and costs associated with that (which frankly has nothing to do with Iron Heart Germany)
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@Alex sigh. So it is 395€ for eu, 500€ for the rest of us. Thanks. Lesson learned.
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The core of the issue is that shipping out of the EU and charging the VAT is quite a hassle for the seller.
One is the paperwork that has to go with the shipment - but the seller also needs to set up their accounting to handle sales without VAT correctly. And to document that the goods are sent out of the EU.
Unless a shop sells a lot out of the EU it’s simply not worth the trouble. Now some decide not to ship out of the EU (and are occasionally criticized for that), others offer to ship but don’t deduct the VAT.
I assume that Iron Heart Germany is a fairly small operation, with very limited sales outside the EU (where they are in competition with IHUK, Selfedge, IH Japan etc), so a setup allowing for deduction of VAT is probably out of the question.
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@TeflonDon said in IH-634-XHS - 25oz Selvedge Denim Straight Cut Jeans - Indigo:
The core of the issue is that shipping out of the EU and charging the VAT is quite a hassle for the seller.
One is the paperwork that has to go with the shipment - but the seller also needs to set up their accounting to handle sales without VAT correctly. And to document that the goods are sent out of the EU.
Unless a shop sells a lot out of the EU it’s simply not worth the trouble. Now some decide not to ship out of the EU (and are occasionally criticized for that), others offer to ship but don’t deduct the VAT.
I assume that Iron Heart Germany is a fairly small operation, with very limited sales outside the EU (where they are in competition with IHUK, Selfedge, IH Japan etc), so a setup allowing for deduction of VAT is probably out of the question.
Somehow I didn't think of each iron heart as a different entity. But that kind of makes sense.
I always thought iron heart is big enough but if they aren't...A simple "hey! We are small operation so setting up dealing with international vat is not worth the hassle. We did charge vat to you. Your government will charge vat and some more duties and handling fees to you. Here's the link of explaining a bit more how you can reclaim vat from your government. If you don't want the hassle, we are happy to cancel and refund you your order. " would have saved me a lot of annoyance and them answering a bunch of posts.
Instead all I got was
"hey! You'll probably pay 20-30% extra for duties, taxes and fees!"
"Why do I have to pay 20-30% when shop page says vat is included?? And duties are usually way less?'
"you're responsible for taxes and duties since you're outside EU"
"So did I pay vat to you or no?"
"Please see your invoice attached.
You do not pay VAT and you do not pay for shipping.
Invoice says 395 €. Taxes 0. "."Ok. I don't particularly need 500€ denim so if it's 395+ 20-30%, cancel the order."
Order is cancelled and refund is on the way but as of now I still have not understood did I pay vat to germany?
From where I stand it was still "395€ taxes 0" invoice with webpage saying 395€ vat included. So 395 for EU and 500€ for the rest of the world...
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curious to know how these stretch vs UHR. my tag 32 UHR went from 33.25" in the waist to 32.25" after the initial soak/wash. after about a year of wear, roughly 290 days (lost count once i stopped wearing daily in the hotter months) they are at about 34" in the waist. currently getting their first wash (long overdue, i know.) anyway, looking for a new pair to fade this fall/winter and XHS is high up on the list, but i'm wondering if i could expect similar stretch with XHS as my UHR. i love how the UHR fit right now and it looks like a tag 33 in XHS would get me a similar fit as my UHR. for those of you with both, do you size up for XHS?
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@indigo_nico I’ve never had a pair of XHS shrink more than probably about .5 to 1” in the waist, and usually they stretch back out to the original chart dimensions, maybe a little more. My advice is always to get a pair that fits you well before you wash. FWIW I don’t put mine in the washer, rather just the tub with the tap on full hot, so you could get a bit more shrink if you go the washing machine route. Regardless, what I’ve heard from others seems to be the same effect of returning to OG chart size and maybe a wee bit more.
Edited to add that my UHRs stretched out more after the first wash, on a similar level to what you experienced.
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@popvulture thanks for the insight! sounds like that tag 33 should get me where i want to be with these... now if only i could find a tag 33 haha!
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@indigo_nico looks like Withered Fig has a pair!
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@popvulture oh shiiii!!!! thanks for the detective work. guess its time to decide on these or wait for the SBG to drop. worse problems to have i suppose!
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@indigo_nico SBG are awesome. I’d go with the XHS if I had to pick, but you can’t go wrong with either.
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Now that it's cooling down, it's time to pick resume my main fade project. So far 135 wears with 1 presoak and 1 handwash. It's good to be back baby!
