Random questions to which you seek an answer
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There is the old proverb, give a man a fish and he eats for a day, teach a man to fish and he’ll never go hungry. The answers you seek may not be here on this forum…but by you taking the initiative to seek out those answers, you could become the be all, end all, on those questions you ask.
Hope this makes sense.
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@goosehd OK, I'm back there with You. I must have been unclear on how I wrote about it earlier.
This is exactly what I'm doing, but as I mentioned earlier I don't think that at this moment my knowledge of the subject matter is sufficient, and the level to what I aspire is pretty high.
Look I'm the kind of dude that has red few times the book that @Giles has recommended about the fabric production process - Weaving: Conversion of yarn to fabric (I think I even posted somewhere on the forum the link to a free .pdf), and then I searched for more source material.
I think that creating such content needs to add the value to the conversation and I'm still way to ignorant about all of this. But here on the forum I see so many people that have much more knowledge and direct experience with the questions that I find myself asking.
That is why I'm asking here. But I'm searching everywhere. -
@Karol just my two cents: a sound foundation in theoretical knowledge is a requirement, but there will come a point when you can’t further that knowledge without getting hands-on, practical experience.
You’re a diver and a photographer, correct? Reading books about these two activities is one thing, putting them together in real life is probably where you learned the most
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@Tago-Mago Exactly the point I’m making. We are not knowledgeable enough to answer some of your questions (Karol). @pechelman gave you a great tool in order to measure density re: fabrics. Take the jeans that you have and measure them yourself. Seek out other jeans, manufacturers, and start your own lists of information and data.
Who know’s…maybe you’ll end up writing a book and everyone will come to you for information.
"I don't give a shit what anyone else is doing, we will do what is best for us and our customers" - Giles P. :)
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@Tago-Mago I wish I had the money to just buy it all and have an educated opinion, but the mortgage... And I don't think that I want to go that far when it comes to fabric production
I'm quite sure that starting a denim mill is not something I have envisioned for myself.
And here on the forum we have folks that over the years tried most of the IH stuff. What I learned from the forum is way better then the videos that people put on YouTube regarding Iron Heart. -
@goosehd @Tago-Mago I get what you are saying guys. And you are right, but that hands-on experience is money dependent and I just want to buy my next pair of jeans
and be happy with the fabric. -
@pechelman said in Random questions to which you seek an answer:
The easy way to measure this is to measure the thickness of the fabric.
@Karol since you asked the question and sent me down this rabbit hole. tagging you
Easy I said....
SO I spent a bit of time going through a bunch of jeans and fabrics attempting to measure them. It's not straight forward as one might think. Still, I did my best, and here's the method used;Fabrics were doubled up in a low wear area like near the hem or on the side of a shirt.
Doubled fabric was used to save me some time and in attempt to get a little more resolution in the thickness.
A Starrett micrometer with a friction click clutch was used to take measurements
Multiple measurements were taken and I averaged them.
When multiple garments with the same fabric were available I also averaged them.
Thicknesses shown are those I took divided in half, so it should be somewhat representative of a single layer of fabric.Things I learned or thought about during the process;
There's a lot of compliance in fabric. Even with a consistent measuring technique,
Thicknesses are relative at best.
Density measured in the manner is highly questionable given 19L and 14oz are right next to 16 slubby.
Actual fabric surface weight is unverified and may be introducing large error.What would I do different?
I wouldnt do this again. Getting the raw fabric from a roll and measuring out precise swatches to actually weigh and measure would be "better". Even "better" might be to use a permeability meter as is used for measuring breathability in technical garments like goretex.Still, here's what I came up with for giggles. At least I can say I was fairly repeatable in my measurement method with a pretty solid relationship between fabric weight and thickness.
if anyone wants my excel sheet let me know and i can email/message it to you
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@pechelman dude this is hardcore — love it!
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Thanks!
I rushed to do all this with cooking dinner, taking care of a sick wife, doing dishes, and a hasty write up. I'm wondering a bit more about fabric weight in general now. Is it really weighed or is it an approximate value based on fabric or yarn thickness instead? That might begin to explain the good correlation between oz/sqyd and thickness measurements whereas there's a very poor relationship to relative density and what we all know to be empirically true through wear. -
@pechelman congratulations my friend
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@pechelman It almost looks like you need to be a... rocket scientist? to come up with that kind of chart
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@pechelman waking up to see this is the best!!!
You made my day. The scientific method galore! I’m starting to study the results. -
@Graham said in Random questions to which you seek an answer:
Bazinga.
Guessing you’re a fan of the Big Bang Theory. One of my all time favorites.
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Wow @pechelman this is the best denim-nerd mad scientist ish I’ve seen in a while. Bravo
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thanks y'all. Hopefully no one thinks this is me trying to be authoritative or whatever. The density results are kinda meaningless imo, which is why I intentionally called it "relative density" and omitted any real units, but I thought it too ridiculous not to share.
I am genuinely curious about how fabric weight is determined now if one of the crew might be able to shed some light. Is the final woven fabric actually weighed in some method or is it based on some characteristic of the input yarns? Or something else?
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@pechelman Freaking real deal denim science....seriously rad! Even if its not necessarily "Authoritative" some real thought and effort went into this.
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@pechelman The way I understand the technique is that a cutout of a specific size is made, weighed, and then it‘s calculated from there.
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This post is deleted!
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@tody said in Random questions to which you seek an answer:
@pechelman The way I understand the technique is that a cutout of a specific size is made, weighed, and then it‘s calculated from there.
I think it’s a square yard of the fabric.
