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    Iron Heart Fall/Winter 2025 Collection Preview - Now Live

    Brexshit

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    • Tago MagoT
      Tago Mago
      Mod Squad
      @EdH
      Joined:

      @EdH Thanks for your comprehensive write-up and the detailed explanation of you reasons for voting to leave.

      I'd disagree with you in that I think the discussion around Brexit was never that nuanced to begin with. Over time, the little nuance that was there initially was replaced by emotions and opinions with little to no basis in facts. From talking to friends and relatives I also didn't get the impression that they had given as much attention to the pros and cons of being a part of the EU. (On a sidenote - this whole idea of "taking back control" or giving power to the people again seems to have conveniently gone out of the window, as neither Liz Truss nor Rishi Sunak were actually elected to be PM. But that's a separate discussion).

      Regardless of one's opinion on the matter, it's done now and everyone has to deal with it. The thing that pisses me off the most is that all those muppets who campaigned for leave apparently never believed that they were going to win because there was no plan in place and they just fucked off after the fact.

      last edited by 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
      • EdHE
        EdH
        Iron Heart Deity
        @Giles
        Joined:

        @Giles said in Brexshit:

        I have yet to see anything good come out of it for the UK or the EU

        Yeah, fair cop. I'd count the fact that our (useless) politicians are at least answerable to us for the laws/policies they make to be a benefit in an of itself - at least, they no longer have the excuse of saying "that's an EU thing we can't change" - but appreciate that that's intangible. It puts the onus back on us to vote in the next lot.

        The only other thing that springs immediately to mind is that the UK had a better Covid-vaccine procurement programme that the EU's, which did things collectively on behalf of its Member States (if I recall correctly we were offered to join it as we were still in the Transition Period). But in fairness examining that whole mess is probably a question for a PhD thesis, as so many countries took different approaches to lockdowns and have different healthcare systems it's probably quite hard to unpick whether the UK got any benefits from the fact that it got started on vaccinations a couple of months ahead of the EU.

        The fact it's harder to ship to Calais that NYC is absurd. Is that down to the UK's decisions/position post-Brexit, or the EU's? (I honestly don't know; it's not a rhetorical question.)

        Take the dive...

        last edited by Tago MagoT 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
        • Tago MagoT
          Tago Mago
          Mod Squad
          @EdH
          Joined:

          @EdH said in Brexshit:

          Is that down to the UK's decisions/position post-Brexit, or the EU's? (I honestly don't know; it's not a rhetorical question.)

          I'd say it's a combination of a hard negotiating stance by the EU as deterrent against possible future leavers as well as hubris and ineptitude on the UK's side:

          https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/dec/09/quick-and-easy-what-leavers-said-about-uk-eu-brexit-trade-deal

          last edited by 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
          • ARNCA
            ARNC
            啓蒙家
            Joined:

            @EdH thanks for this contribution. I (still) have friends and colleagues from both sides and most (although not all) thought deeply before voting. I think with hindsight that the biggest problem was that “all we were asked was to put a cross in a box on a piece of paper”, with insufficient consideration of what might come next. Where we ended up is perhaps somewhat different to what seemed to be on offer in 2016.

            For me perhaps the biggest lost opportunity is the chance to be part of and influence the development of the new Unified Patent Court system. Admittedly a slightly niche interest which will hit my younger colleagues harder (I was “grandfathered in” as a UPC representative but they will need additional qualifications obtained outside the UK).

            [Note: Some additional posts came in as I was writing this, so some of my thoughts may have already been covered.]

            “Every day that you survive you get a free sunset“

            last edited by 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 2
            • GilesG
              Giles
              IHUK Crew
              Joined:

              I agree that our approach to Covid vaccination procurement was brilliant compared to others, and had we been part of The EEC our ability to wing it and go our own way would have been severely compromised.

              Much of the increase in difficulty in shipping to The EU is because frankly most of the EU is butt hurt that we left ,and many member countries are "making us pay" for that. But also the massive increase in paperwork and effort that the shipping companies have to spend as a result of Brexit, comes at a cost - a cost that is passed down to us.

              "OK face up to it - you're useless but generally pretty honest and straightforward . . . it's a rare combination of qualities that I have come to admire in you" - Geo 2011

              last edited by 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 2
              • EdHE
                EdH
                Iron Heart Deity
                @endo
                Joined:

                @endo said in Brexshit:

                Perhaps we can discuss this on our next meeting in more detail.

                I'd love to! Big topics like the one's you're raising deserve good beer and being had in person - a lot is lost when all you can see is text on a screen.

                Take the dive...

                last edited by Tago MagoT 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 3
                • Tago MagoT
                  Tago Mago
                  Mod Squad
                  @EdH
                  Joined:

                  @EdH @endo I'd love to join you if you don't mind. At least for a beer or two

                  last edited by 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 3
                  • endoE
                    endo
                    見習いボス
                    Joined:

                    we'll do so in September, gentlemen 🤗

                    si tacuisses

                    last edited by 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 3
                    • goosehdG
                      goosehd
                      Mod Squad
                      Joined:

                      I love you guys!! ❤️

                      "I don't give a shit what anyone else is doing, we will do what is best for us and our customers" - Giles P. :)

                      last edited by Tago MagoT 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                      • Tago MagoT
                        Tago Mago
                        Mod Squad
                        @goosehd
                        Joined:

                        @goosehd your attendance is mandatory by the way 😉

                        last edited by 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 2
                        • goosehdG
                          goosehd
                          Mod Squad
                          Joined:

                          Wouldn’t miss it for the world…maybe afterwards we can do shots and discuss upcoming elections….

                          Don’t get any ideas guys…I don’t want to ban myself nor anyone else.

                          "I don't give a shit what anyone else is doing, we will do what is best for us and our customers" - Giles P. :)

                          last edited by 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 2
                          • S
                            sabergirl
                            見習いボス
                            Joined:

                            Haha @goosehd

                            I wish I could join you all for drinks and a good discussion!

                            I’ve enjoyed reading this dialogue immensely and sort of wish that we were able to have civil discourse about the state of US politics in the same vein. But I know that ain’t ever gonna happen, and it’s probably best for the sanctity of the forum that we always leave that third rail alone.

                            last edited by goosehdG 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 2
                            • goosehdG
                              goosehd
                              Mod Squad
                              @sabergirl
                              Joined:

                              @sabergirl ❤️ One day my friend!

                              "I don't give a shit what anyone else is doing, we will do what is best for us and our customers" - Giles P. :)

                              last edited by 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                              • TobiT
                                Tobi
                                Haraki san Prodigy
                                Joined:

                                To put in a word for the EU (as a political system): I lived and worked in 4 European countries, including 3 years in the UK (made possible by it then being in the EU). I now work for the European Environment Agency, a independent EU agency where 300 dedicated colleagues from 36 countries work together for the shared European Environment. Knowing the system from the inside, I would plea that with all justified criticism, the positive aspects are not forgotten! I have yet to meet the caricature of the entitled, undemocratic EU bureaucrat. Withdrawing from environmental cooperation and networks was a HUGE loss for both the UK and EU, and the shared cause of keeping this planet a livable place.

                                last edited by louisboscoL 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 5
                                • GilesG
                                  Giles
                                  IHUK Crew
                                  Joined:

                                  A few days after the Brexit vote, I had to be in. Berlin. I bumped into a German friend (one of the most intelligent and open-minded people I know) who was having a coffee at a streetside cafe, I was not in a rush, so I joined him for a drink.

                                  His first retort was "Oh Giles, what have you done?" After I rather pitifully and pathetically blamed it on everyone else but me, he went on to say, "You know, The EU was Germanys' gift to Europe, it was our attempt to bring peace and harmony to all European nations as atonement for some of the awful things we had done to Europe throughout the 20th century, and we feel butt-hurt and devastated that the UK has basically said "you can fuck right off to the olive branch we proffered."...

                                  "OK face up to it - you're useless but generally pretty honest and straightforward . . . it's a rare combination of qualities that I have come to admire in you" - Geo 2011

                                  last edited by 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 2
                                  • goosehdG
                                    goosehd
                                    Mod Squad
                                    Joined:

                                    One of the things that made a huge impact on me growing up was the fall of the Berlin Wall, the democratization of former Bloc countries, and the EU working together for mutual benefits...I thought if that many countries could find some type of agreement, then the rest of the world could do the same...

                                    I still have hope...

                                    "I don't give a shit what anyone else is doing, we will do what is best for us and our customers" - Giles P. :)

                                    last edited by 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                    • JunkPantsJ
                                      JunkPants
                                      Haraki san Student
                                      @EdH
                                      Joined:

                                      Not a UK citizen, but in many ways I sympathise with the principle @EdH presents, and I think I would have been inclined to vote the same. As it happens I also have a law degree (master's), which perhaps has some bearing on it.

                                      Here in Norway (while not a member of the EU) as a result of the EEA agreement we have to abide by EU legislation to a large extent, while having very little influence over it. Which I personally find to be 'not-even-close-to-democratic-enough-for-me'.

                                      Back to denim talk now 😌

                                      last edited by 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                                      • louisboscoL
                                        louisbosco
                                        啓蒙家
                                        @Tobi
                                        Joined:

                                        @Tobi so you're the one to blame for my motorcycles and cars exhaust sounding like crap now... ahahahahaha 😂 😂 😂

                                        "Loyalty is a two way street. If i'm asking for it from you, then you're getting it from me."

                                        • Harvey Specter
                                        last edited by TobiT 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                        • MattM
                                          Matt
                                          見習いボス
                                          Joined:

                                          Admittedly I don’t know much of the nuance surrounding Brexit as it doesn’t come up much in my circles. However I’m sure after a few drinks I’ll be a self proclaimed expert so count me in. I have LOTS to say about our own special brand of US fascism nationalism.

                                          last edited by Matt 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 3
                                          • TobiT
                                            Tobi
                                            Haraki san Prodigy
                                            @louisbosco
                                            Joined:

                                            @louisbosco nope.. this is coming from Brussels (but underpinned by a lot of research on the health effects of traffic noise). I map forests and such from satellite images to help keep track of greenhouse gas emissions and removals from land use 🙂

                                            last edited by 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
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