• Home
  • Recent
  • Calendar
  • Register
  • Login
  • Home
  • Recent
  • Calendar
  • Register
  • Login
Iron Heart Forum
Iron Heart Forum

New Iron Heart Website - Live Now - Feedback and Bug Report Here Please!

Brexshit

News
58
204
27.2k
Loading More Posts
  • Oldest to Newest
  • Newest to Oldest
  • Most Votes
Reply
  • Reply as topic
Log in to reply
This topic has been deleted. Only users with topic management privileges can see it.
  • G
    Giles
    IHUK Crew
    Joined: 22 Sept 2009

    I have no preconceptions/views about what a Brexiteer looks like, and I have many friends who voted to leave.

    But, I have yet to see anything good come out of it for the UK or the EU (I am happy to be told what they are to give me some balance). And selfishly it has fucked our European business up so badly, that we seriously thought long and hard about whether we could continue doing business in the EEC (and in fact, many small companies on both sides of the channel have stopped shipping across the channel). As it is, we did eventually decide to weather the storm, but our profitability on European sales has plummeted, and our customers in Europe have a significantly worse user experience than prior to Brexit.

    It now takes longer and costs more for us to ship something to Calais than it does to New York.

    And on another selfish point, I am really pissed off that I can no longer spend more than 90 days out of 180 days in the EEC.

    "OK face up to it - you're useless but generally pretty honest and straightforward . . . it's a rare combination of qualities that I have come to admire in you" - Geo 2011

    last edited by 5 Apr 2024, 10:58 E 1 Reply Last reply 5 Apr 2024, 11:19 Reply Quote 2
    • E
      endo
      見習いボス
      @EdH
      Joined: 29 May 2020

      @EdH said in Brexshit:

      I get the impression that you are using "benefit" in a narrow, economic sense.

      Not really, it was quite openly said, but what I mean is more a benefit not only on economic issues, but also social and cultural. The growing-closer of the different nations on the continent during my lifespan has given us not only a better economic situation, but also social and cultural improvements that were to the benefit of the most. Somebody from the AfD would certainly talk different, and I know it's still quite vague what I'm saying here. But with all respect and love I have for the UK and it's people, I think it would benefit from more mingling, get rid of the class system that is (sorry IMO) outdated and detrimental. Only also my impression from (certainly much less talking to Brits before the Leave than you must have had) was not (again sorry) that 'people were generally well informed about the upcoming vote, and weighing up their choice'. IMO there was also a lot of nationalism going on.

      @EdH after all please remember this is a foreign language to me, not always easy to find appropriate words. Perhaps we can discuss this on our next meeting in more detail. 🤟

      si tacuisses

      last edited by 5 Apr 2024, 11:14 E 1 Reply Last reply 5 Apr 2024, 11:33 Reply Quote 3
      • T
        Tago Mago
        Mod Squad
        @EdH
        Joined: 16 Jan 2021

        @EdH Thanks for your comprehensive write-up and the detailed explanation of you reasons for voting to leave.

        I'd disagree with you in that I think the discussion around Brexit was never that nuanced to begin with. Over time, the little nuance that was there initially was replaced by emotions and opinions with little to no basis in facts. From talking to friends and relatives I also didn't get the impression that they had given as much attention to the pros and cons of being a part of the EU. (On a sidenote - this whole idea of "taking back control" or giving power to the people again seems to have conveniently gone out of the window, as neither Liz Truss nor Rishi Sunak were actually elected to be PM. But that's a separate discussion).

        Regardless of one's opinion on the matter, it's done now and everyone has to deal with it. The thing that pisses me off the most is that all those muppets who campaigned for leave apparently never believed that they were going to win because there was no plan in place and they just fucked off after the fact.

        last edited by 5 Apr 2024, 11:17 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
        • E
          EdH
          Iron Heart Deity
          @Giles
          Joined: 2 Jan 2022

          @Giles said in Brexshit:

          I have yet to see anything good come out of it for the UK or the EU

          Yeah, fair cop. I'd count the fact that our (useless) politicians are at least answerable to us for the laws/policies they make to be a benefit in an of itself - at least, they no longer have the excuse of saying "that's an EU thing we can't change" - but appreciate that that's intangible. It puts the onus back on us to vote in the next lot.

          The only other thing that springs immediately to mind is that the UK had a better Covid-vaccine procurement programme that the EU's, which did things collectively on behalf of its Member States (if I recall correctly we were offered to join it as we were still in the Transition Period). But in fairness examining that whole mess is probably a question for a PhD thesis, as so many countries took different approaches to lockdowns and have different healthcare systems it's probably quite hard to unpick whether the UK got any benefits from the fact that it got started on vaccinations a couple of months ahead of the EU.

          The fact it's harder to ship to Calais that NYC is absurd. Is that down to the UK's decisions/position post-Brexit, or the EU's? (I honestly don't know; it's not a rhetorical question.)

          Take the dive...

          last edited by 5 Apr 2024, 11:19 T 1 Reply Last reply 5 Apr 2024, 11:23 Reply Quote 1
          • T
            Tago Mago
            Mod Squad
            @EdH
            Joined: 16 Jan 2021

            @EdH said in Brexshit:

            Is that down to the UK's decisions/position post-Brexit, or the EU's? (I honestly don't know; it's not a rhetorical question.)

            I'd say it's a combination of a hard negotiating stance by the EU as deterrent against possible future leavers as well as hubris and ineptitude on the UK's side:

            https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/dec/09/quick-and-easy-what-leavers-said-about-uk-eu-brexit-trade-deal

            last edited by 5 Apr 2024, 11:23 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
            • A
              ARNC
              啓蒙家
              Joined: 13 Dec 2020

              @EdH thanks for this contribution. I (still) have friends and colleagues from both sides and most (although not all) thought deeply before voting. I think with hindsight that the biggest problem was that “all we were asked was to put a cross in a box on a piece of paper”, with insufficient consideration of what might come next. Where we ended up is perhaps somewhat different to what seemed to be on offer in 2016.

              For me perhaps the biggest lost opportunity is the chance to be part of and influence the development of the new Unified Patent Court system. Admittedly a slightly niche interest which will hit my younger colleagues harder (I was “grandfathered in” as a UPC representative but they will need additional qualifications obtained outside the UK).

              [Note: Some additional posts came in as I was writing this, so some of my thoughts may have already been covered.]

              “Every day that you survive you get a free sunset“

              last edited by 5 Apr 2024, 11:24 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 2
              • G
                Giles
                IHUK Crew
                Joined: 22 Sept 2009

                I agree that our approach to Covid vaccination procurement was brilliant compared to others, and had we been part of The EEC our ability to wing it and go our own way would have been severely compromised.

                Much of the increase in difficulty in shipping to The EU is because frankly most of the EU is butt hurt that we left ,and many member countries are "making us pay" for that. But also the massive increase in paperwork and effort that the shipping companies have to spend as a result of Brexit, comes at a cost - a cost that is passed down to us.

                "OK face up to it - you're useless but generally pretty honest and straightforward . . . it's a rare combination of qualities that I have come to admire in you" - Geo 2011

                last edited by 5 Apr 2024, 11:28 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 2
                • E
                  EdH
                  Iron Heart Deity
                  @endo
                  Joined: 2 Jan 2022

                  @endo said in Brexshit:

                  Perhaps we can discuss this on our next meeting in more detail.

                  I'd love to! Big topics like the one's you're raising deserve good beer and being had in person - a lot is lost when all you can see is text on a screen.

                  Take the dive...

                  last edited by 5 Apr 2024, 11:33 T 1 Reply Last reply 5 Apr 2024, 11:34 Reply Quote 3
                  • T
                    Tago Mago
                    Mod Squad
                    @EdH
                    Joined: 16 Jan 2021

                    @EdH @endo I'd love to join you if you don't mind. At least for a beer or two

                    last edited by 5 Apr 2024, 11:34 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 3
                    • E
                      endo
                      見習いボス
                      Joined: 29 May 2020

                      we'll do so in September, gentlemen 🤗

                      si tacuisses

                      last edited by 5 Apr 2024, 11:35 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 3
                      • G
                        goosehd
                        Mod Squad
                        Joined: 8 Apr 2016

                        I love you guys!! ❤️

                        "I don't give a shit what anyone else is doing, we will do what is best for us and our customers" - Giles P. :)

                        last edited by 5 Apr 2024, 11:40 T 1 Reply Last reply 5 Apr 2024, 11:50 Reply Quote 1
                        • T
                          Tago Mago
                          Mod Squad
                          @goosehd
                          Joined: 16 Jan 2021

                          @goosehd your attendance is mandatory by the way 😉

                          last edited by 5 Apr 2024, 11:50 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 2
                          • G
                            goosehd
                            Mod Squad
                            Joined: 8 Apr 2016

                            Wouldn’t miss it for the world…maybe afterwards we can do shots and discuss upcoming elections….

                            Don’t get any ideas guys…I don’t want to ban myself nor anyone else.

                            "I don't give a shit what anyone else is doing, we will do what is best for us and our customers" - Giles P. :)

                            last edited by 5 Apr 2024, 11:57 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 2
                            • S
                              sabergirl
                              見習いボス
                              Joined: 4 Oct 2013

                              Haha @goosehd

                              I wish I could join you all for drinks and a good discussion!

                              I’ve enjoyed reading this dialogue immensely and sort of wish that we were able to have civil discourse about the state of US politics in the same vein. But I know that ain’t ever gonna happen, and it’s probably best for the sanctity of the forum that we always leave that third rail alone.

                              last edited by 5 Apr 2024, 12:11 G 1 Reply Last reply 5 Apr 2024, 12:17 Reply Quote 2
                              • G
                                goosehd
                                Mod Squad
                                @sabergirl
                                Joined: 8 Apr 2016

                                @sabergirl ❤️ One day my friend!

                                "I don't give a shit what anyone else is doing, we will do what is best for us and our customers" - Giles P. :)

                                last edited by 5 Apr 2024, 12:17 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                • T
                                  Tobi
                                  Haraki san Prodigy
                                  Joined: 12 Aug 2022

                                  To put in a word for the EU (as a political system): I lived and worked in 4 European countries, including 3 years in the UK (made possible by it then being in the EU). I now work for the European Environment Agency, a independent EU agency where 300 dedicated colleagues from 36 countries work together for the shared European Environment. Knowing the system from the inside, I would plea that with all justified criticism, the positive aspects are not forgotten! I have yet to meet the caricature of the entitled, undemocratic EU bureaucrat. Withdrawing from environmental cooperation and networks was a HUGE loss for both the UK and EU, and the shared cause of keeping this planet a livable place.

                                  last edited by 5 Apr 2024, 12:34 L 1 Reply Last reply 5 Apr 2024, 14:24 Reply Quote 5
                                  • G
                                    Giles
                                    IHUK Crew
                                    Joined: 22 Sept 2009

                                    A few days after the Brexit vote, I had to be in. Berlin. I bumped into a German friend (one of the most intelligent and open-minded people I know) who was having a coffee at a streetside cafe, I was not in a rush, so I joined him for a drink.

                                    His first retort was "Oh Giles, what have you done?" After I rather pitifully and pathetically blamed it on everyone else but me, he went on to say, "You know, The EU was Germanys' gift to Europe, it was our attempt to bring peace and harmony to all European nations as atonement for some of the awful things we had done to Europe throughout the 20th century, and we feel butt-hurt and devastated that the UK has basically said "you can fuck right off to the olive branch we proffered."...

                                    "OK face up to it - you're useless but generally pretty honest and straightforward . . . it's a rare combination of qualities that I have come to admire in you" - Geo 2011

                                    last edited by 5 Apr 2024, 12:59 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 2
                                    • G
                                      goosehd
                                      Mod Squad
                                      Joined: 8 Apr 2016

                                      One of the things that made a huge impact on me growing up was the fall of the Berlin Wall, the democratization of former Bloc countries, and the EU working together for mutual benefits...I thought if that many countries could find some type of agreement, then the rest of the world could do the same...

                                      I still have hope...

                                      "I don't give a shit what anyone else is doing, we will do what is best for us and our customers" - Giles P. :)

                                      last edited by 5 Apr 2024, 13:04 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                      • J
                                        JunkPants
                                        Haraki san Student
                                        @EdH
                                        Joined: 20 Nov 2022

                                        Not a UK citizen, but in many ways I sympathise with the principle @EdH presents, and I think I would have been inclined to vote the same. As it happens I also have a law degree (master's), which perhaps has some bearing on it.

                                        Here in Norway (while not a member of the EU) as a result of the EEA agreement we have to abide by EU legislation to a large extent, while having very little influence over it. Which I personally find to be 'not-even-close-to-democratic-enough-for-me'.

                                        Back to denim talk now 😌

                                        last edited by 5 Apr 2024, 13:10 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                                        • L
                                          louisbosco
                                          啓蒙家
                                          @Tobi
                                          Joined: 21 Feb 2013

                                          @Tobi so you're the one to blame for my motorcycles and cars exhaust sounding like crap now... ahahahahaha 😂 😂 😂

                                          "Loyalty is a two way street. If i'm asking for it from you, then you're getting it from me."

                                          • Harvey Specter
                                          last edited by 5 Apr 2024, 14:24 T 1 Reply Last reply 5 Apr 2024, 14:54 Reply Quote 0
                                          157 out of 204
                                          • First post
                                            157/204
                                            Last post
                                          Copyright Iron Heart 2022.