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    Iron Heart Fall/Winter 2025 Collection Preview - Now Live

    Watches - another OCD problem

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    • GraemeG
      Graeme
      啓蒙家
      Joined:

      Omega have announced that they're remaking the Calibre 321, which was used in the original Speedmasters that went to the Moon.

      Given we're coming up on the fiftieth anniversary of Neil Armstrong's jaunt, I suspect that we'll be seeing this in the inevitable limited commemorative edition Speedmaster, which will sell like crack filled hotcakes.

      last edited by 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
      • ChrisC
        Chris
        Raw and Unwashed
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        And will be obscenely priced…

        last edited by 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
        • mclaincauseyM
          mclaincausey
          見習いボス
          Joined:

          Fratello indicates the movement will not be in the 50th anniversary models. There is to be a gold one allegedly (which sounds disgusting).

          The backstory about how they had to do a CT scan and have a multidisciplinary team reverse engineer the movement makes no sense to me, since the Swatch group never stopped making it and presumably has all the schematics.

          Good news for Speedy nerds but agree with Chris the pricing will be outrageous based on the single workshop and painstaking 2 year reverse eingineering project described.

          Think it, be it.

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          • DougNgD
            DougNg
            Joined:

            I was just saying that to Jody last night re: the scan they had to do to reverse engineer it…

            Is it that the specs for the movement were destroyed in a fire?!?

            Or is watchmaking a haphazard process where people are making shit up as they go along, and every 321 movement is really the specific to Joe Dirt and Sunshine Lou?

            Or is Omega full of shit?

            You'd think making a specific movement has standards and specifications...

            I know violence is not the answer, I got it wrong on purpose

            last edited by 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
            • mclaincauseyM
              mclaincausey
              見習いボス
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              I'm going "full of shit."

              The entire backstory to me seems designed to justify a high price.

              Think it, be it.

              last edited by 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
              • GilesG
                Giles
                IHUK Crew
                Joined:

                Full of shit gets my vote….

                "OK face up to it - you're useless but generally pretty honest and straightforward . . . it's a rare combination of qualities that I have come to admire in you" - Geo 2011

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                • ChrisC
                  Chris
                  Raw and Unwashed
                  Joined:

                  @DougNg:

                  Or is Omega full of shit?

                  Yes.

                  The idea that they couldn't follow the original specs and instead had to go to extreme lengths to recreate the movement is absurd.  It's not an illuminated manuscript from the dark ages.  There are probably still a couple of employees at Omega that assembled the originals. It wasn't that long ago.

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                  • GilesG
                    Giles
                    IHUK Crew
                    Joined:

                    IMO, it's rather an own goal.  "Hey, we are so shite at looking after our heritage, we've lost all sorts of essential data.  You send your few decades old watch in for refurb/service, we're going to have to back engineer the fecker, or bodge it…..

                    "OK face up to it - you're useless but generally pretty honest and straightforward . . . it's a rare combination of qualities that I have come to admire in you" - Geo 2011

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                    • DougNgD
                      DougNg
                      Joined:

                      That's as idiotic as "I'm going to find out more about my family history so I'm going to talk to a monkey"

                      Which has varying levels of effectiveness depending on your family I suppose…

                      I know violence is not the answer, I got it wrong on purpose

                      last edited by 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                      • mclaincauseyM
                        mclaincausey
                        見習いボス
                        Joined:

                        They are also doing sedna gold PVD in lieu of the original copper in order to preserve the look of copper in the movement. With gold. That is not a typo

                        But gold doesn't tarnish so that may be a legitimate aim. It seems odd to take such pains to replicate the original and then switch up materials though.

                        Think it, be it.

                        last edited by 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                        • GraemeG
                          Graeme
                          啓蒙家
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                          Omega also used a CT scanner to replicate the case of the limited edition Railmaster. It could be that it's a quick and dirty way of acquiring a 3D model, or that with components being hand made back in the sixties, there was some deviation from their specifications.

                          Marketing has no doubt picked up on this and oversold it.

                          I suspect that there's been a bit of subtle modernisation of the movement. The Wrist Chronograph has a few subtle upgrades. That might have been what took the time.

                          https://www.hodinkee.com/articles/first-omega-wrist-chronograph-limited-edition-1918-introducing

                          FP Journe uses gold movements too. It's probably a way of charging a lot more. 🙂

                          last edited by 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                          • JDelageJ
                            JDelage
                            啓蒙家
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                            I'm sure it's not only the quickest but also the best way (and maybe the easiest / cheapest) to accurately translate a series of complex 3D shape into digital files. No doubt those will be combed over & edited with the help of any paper docs they may still have.

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                            • mclaincauseyM
                              mclaincausey
                              見習いボス
                              Joined:

                              It's an easy way to get a 3D model, but you know what's easier and more accurate and doesn't include worn gears and the like?

                              Entering the measurements from the blueprints into your CAD system or tooling equipment.

                              It is unquestionably just a bunch of bullshit hype.

                              Think it, be it.

                              last edited by 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                              • DougNgD
                                DougNg
                                Joined:

                                I know a little bit about manufacturing being a knife and gun enthusiast, and what a scan won't tell you is the +/- of tolerances. It just tells you what things are right now. Every individual part has over and under tolerances that are not the same across all parts. Having a series of parts that are +/- in series results in tolerance stacking, ultimately affecting the reliability.

                                I know violence is not the answer, I got it wrong on purpose

                                last edited by 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                • GraemeG
                                  Graeme
                                  啓蒙家
                                  Joined:

                                  It's also possible that the design documents for the Calibre 321 weren't complete. There's an article at Ars Technica about the recreation of the F-1 engine used by the Saturn V, which was designed in the sixties, and goes into the problems facing resurrecting old technology.

                                  https://arstechnica.com/science/2013/04/how-nasa-brought-the-monstrous-f-1-moon-rocket-back-to-life/

                                  Incidentally, there was serious consideration of reusing this for NASA's heavy lift system.

                                  last edited by 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                  • mclaincauseyM
                                    mclaincausey
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                                    Again though, the problem with all of that is that the movement never went out of production within entities that ultimately became the parent company of Omega.

                                    A certified Omega watchmaker on the Omega forums called it bollocks too.

                                    Think it, be it.

                                    last edited by 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                    • JDelageJ
                                      JDelage
                                      啓蒙家
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                                      What is the "bollocks" part of the claim here? In other words, are people claiming that Omega used CT scanning solely for the sake of generating a marketing claim?

                                      last edited by 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                      • mclaincauseyM
                                        mclaincausey
                                        見習いボス
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                                        That is the claim, or at least that they are outsizing the CT and other efforts described to recreate a movement that never went out of production.

                                        Think it, be it.

                                        last edited by 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                        • Max PowerM
                                          Max Power
                                          Raw and Unwashed
                                          Joined:

                                          I was wondering - is there something like a defintive maker of Nato straps worth checking out?

                                          @elclintor:

                                          > I don't care what people say.. The Max Power way is the right way…

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                                          • GraemeG
                                            Graeme
                                            啓蒙家
                                            Joined:

                                            Anyone else following SIHH?

                                            Vacheron Constantin have unveiled a very trick perpetual calendar with a standby mode that stretches the power reserve out to 65 days. It slows the movement down from 5 Hz to 1.25 Hz. Oh, and if you want one it's €210K.

                                            Audemars Piguet launched the CODE 11.59 range, which has way too much marketing speak in its branding. None of the watch nerds seem to like them, but sales copy aside, I think that they're attractive. And the aventine dial on their perpetual calendar looks fantastic.

                                            Fortunately they also brought along a few new Royal Oak models. The basic model has been refreshed, and looks pretty sharp.

                                            Then there's the A. Lange & Söhne Richard Lange Jumping Seconds… 😘

                                            Ulysse Nardin are doing a sawn-off Freak at a lower price point.

                                            And Hermès have produced a fantastic moon-phase. The subdials rotate, covering the fixed moons.

                                            Lastly, IWC have added to their pilot watches. There are new four ceramic models in their Top Gun range, including a 39 mm piece that's similar to a Mark XVIII, but with an in-house movement. The Spitfire collection is all retro steel and bronze.

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