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    Watches - another OCD problem

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    • DougNgD
      DougNg
      Joined:

      I was just saying that to Jody last night re: the scan they had to do to reverse engineer it…

      Is it that the specs for the movement were destroyed in a fire?!?

      Or is watchmaking a haphazard process where people are making shit up as they go along, and every 321 movement is really the specific to Joe Dirt and Sunshine Lou?

      Or is Omega full of shit?

      You'd think making a specific movement has standards and specifications...

      I know violence is not the answer, I got it wrong on purpose

      last edited by 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
      • mclaincauseyM
        mclaincausey
        見習いボス
        Joined:

        I'm going "full of shit."

        The entire backstory to me seems designed to justify a high price.

        Think it, be it.

        last edited by 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
        • GilesG
          Giles
          IHUK Crew
          Joined:

          Full of shit gets my vote….

          "OK face up to it - you're useless but generally pretty honest and straightforward . . . it's a rare combination of qualities that I have come to admire in you" - Geo 2011

          last edited by 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
          • ChrisC
            Chris
            Raw and Unwashed
            Joined:

            @DougNg:

            Or is Omega full of shit?

            Yes.

            The idea that they couldn't follow the original specs and instead had to go to extreme lengths to recreate the movement is absurd.  It's not an illuminated manuscript from the dark ages.  There are probably still a couple of employees at Omega that assembled the originals. It wasn't that long ago.

            last edited by 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
            • GilesG
              Giles
              IHUK Crew
              Joined:

              IMO, it's rather an own goal.  "Hey, we are so shite at looking after our heritage, we've lost all sorts of essential data.  You send your few decades old watch in for refurb/service, we're going to have to back engineer the fecker, or bodge it…..

              "OK face up to it - you're useless but generally pretty honest and straightforward . . . it's a rare combination of qualities that I have come to admire in you" - Geo 2011

              last edited by 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
              • DougNgD
                DougNg
                Joined:

                That's as idiotic as "I'm going to find out more about my family history so I'm going to talk to a monkey"

                Which has varying levels of effectiveness depending on your family I suppose…

                I know violence is not the answer, I got it wrong on purpose

                last edited by 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                • mclaincauseyM
                  mclaincausey
                  見習いボス
                  Joined:

                  They are also doing sedna gold PVD in lieu of the original copper in order to preserve the look of copper in the movement. With gold. That is not a typo

                  But gold doesn't tarnish so that may be a legitimate aim. It seems odd to take such pains to replicate the original and then switch up materials though.

                  Think it, be it.

                  last edited by 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                  • GraemeG
                    Graeme
                    啓蒙家
                    Joined:

                    Omega also used a CT scanner to replicate the case of the limited edition Railmaster. It could be that it's a quick and dirty way of acquiring a 3D model, or that with components being hand made back in the sixties, there was some deviation from their specifications.

                    Marketing has no doubt picked up on this and oversold it.

                    I suspect that there's been a bit of subtle modernisation of the movement. The Wrist Chronograph has a few subtle upgrades. That might have been what took the time.

                    https://www.hodinkee.com/articles/first-omega-wrist-chronograph-limited-edition-1918-introducing

                    FP Journe uses gold movements too. It's probably a way of charging a lot more. 🙂

                    last edited by 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                    • JDelageJ
                      JDelage
                      啓蒙家
                      Joined:

                      I'm sure it's not only the quickest but also the best way (and maybe the easiest / cheapest) to accurately translate a series of complex 3D shape into digital files. No doubt those will be combed over & edited with the help of any paper docs they may still have.

                      last edited by 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                      • mclaincauseyM
                        mclaincausey
                        見習いボス
                        Joined:

                        It's an easy way to get a 3D model, but you know what's easier and more accurate and doesn't include worn gears and the like?

                        Entering the measurements from the blueprints into your CAD system or tooling equipment.

                        It is unquestionably just a bunch of bullshit hype.

                        Think it, be it.

                        last edited by 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                        • DougNgD
                          DougNg
                          Joined:

                          I know a little bit about manufacturing being a knife and gun enthusiast, and what a scan won't tell you is the +/- of tolerances. It just tells you what things are right now. Every individual part has over and under tolerances that are not the same across all parts. Having a series of parts that are +/- in series results in tolerance stacking, ultimately affecting the reliability.

                          I know violence is not the answer, I got it wrong on purpose

                          last edited by 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                          • GraemeG
                            Graeme
                            啓蒙家
                            Joined:

                            It's also possible that the design documents for the Calibre 321 weren't complete. There's an article at Ars Technica about the recreation of the F-1 engine used by the Saturn V, which was designed in the sixties, and goes into the problems facing resurrecting old technology.

                            https://arstechnica.com/science/2013/04/how-nasa-brought-the-monstrous-f-1-moon-rocket-back-to-life/

                            Incidentally, there was serious consideration of reusing this for NASA's heavy lift system.

                            last edited by 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                            • mclaincauseyM
                              mclaincausey
                              見習いボス
                              Joined:

                              Again though, the problem with all of that is that the movement never went out of production within entities that ultimately became the parent company of Omega.

                              A certified Omega watchmaker on the Omega forums called it bollocks too.

                              Think it, be it.

                              last edited by 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                              • JDelageJ
                                JDelage
                                啓蒙家
                                Joined:

                                What is the "bollocks" part of the claim here? In other words, are people claiming that Omega used CT scanning solely for the sake of generating a marketing claim?

                                last edited by 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                • mclaincauseyM
                                  mclaincausey
                                  見習いボス
                                  Joined:

                                  That is the claim, or at least that they are outsizing the CT and other efforts described to recreate a movement that never went out of production.

                                  Think it, be it.

                                  last edited by 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                  • Max PowerM
                                    Max Power
                                    Raw and Unwashed
                                    Joined:

                                    I was wondering - is there something like a defintive maker of Nato straps worth checking out?

                                    @elclintor:

                                    > I don't care what people say.. The Max Power way is the right way…

                                    last edited by 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                    • GraemeG
                                      Graeme
                                      啓蒙家
                                      Joined:

                                      Anyone else following SIHH?

                                      Vacheron Constantin have unveiled a very trick perpetual calendar with a standby mode that stretches the power reserve out to 65 days. It slows the movement down from 5 Hz to 1.25 Hz. Oh, and if you want one it's €210K.

                                      Audemars Piguet launched the CODE 11.59 range, which has way too much marketing speak in its branding. None of the watch nerds seem to like them, but sales copy aside, I think that they're attractive. And the aventine dial on their perpetual calendar looks fantastic.

                                      Fortunately they also brought along a few new Royal Oak models. The basic model has been refreshed, and looks pretty sharp.

                                      Then there's the A. Lange & Söhne Richard Lange Jumping Seconds… 😘

                                      Ulysse Nardin are doing a sawn-off Freak at a lower price point.

                                      And Hermès have produced a fantastic moon-phase. The subdials rotate, covering the fixed moons.

                                      Lastly, IWC have added to their pilot watches. There are new four ceramic models in their Top Gun range, including a 39 mm piece that's similar to a Mark XVIII, but with an in-house movement. The Spitfire collection is all retro steel and bronze.

                                      last edited by 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                      • louisboscoL
                                        louisbosco
                                        啓蒙家
                                        Joined:

                                        not really. the only thing that popped up was the group of royal oak.. i've gotta say, that lange up there, gotta love it when they do the criss cross hands..

                                        "Loyalty is a two way street. If i'm asking for it from you, then you're getting it from me."

                                        • Harvey Specter
                                        last edited by 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                        • ChrisC
                                          Chris
                                          Raw and Unwashed
                                          Joined:

                                          Those Hermes moon phase and the UN Freak are the standouts, in my opinion.  And I agree that the aventine dial looks impressive, though the overall watch is a bit too much.

                                          last edited by 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                          • JDelageJ
                                            JDelage
                                            啓蒙家
                                            Joined:

                                            Thank you for this. Those Hermes look super nice!

                                            I like that AP Supersonnerie - from afar. The enamel dial is lovely.

                                            RA always look sublime and I think the new one improves on the previous iteration, which is saying a lot.

                                            The IWC Spitfire combines my favorite case material, bronze, with my favorite dial color, green, so it's very attractive… The chrono seem pretty well priced compared to the basic model.

                                            last edited by 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
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