Hand Made v Mass Produced?

[khaki8]

@hectic:

I had the privilege of having a Schmidt shirt land at my house recently, thanks for great comms and a freaking awesome shirt @nietenhosen. I want to do a classy review and I need to find time for decent pics, will do this ASAP

Like the shirt…but curious about the label...what is actually hand made about it?

[Chris]

He constructs them all himself.  If you go through the thread, you'll see some pictures of other shirts he's made for forum members, including several at various stages of completion.

[Anesthetist]

Cool material and exceptionally neat buttons. How many fabric choices are you up to now? If you haven't experienced one of these shirts, they are exceptionally made.

[khaki8]

@Chris:

He constructs them all himself.  If you go through the thread, you'll see some pictures of other shirts he's made for forum members, including several at various stages of completion.

The implication of hand made means needle and thread to me….like a tailor. He is still using a machine....like all other makers whether they are high end or low end..even though he makes them himself.

[sabergirl]

@khaki8

[khaki8]

I see the word hand made everywhere…but there is no hand stitching except for the leathergoods. Bugs me.
We are changing our language to suit marketing people....

[FOXY]

Industrial production will see the shirt made in production lines of 20-26 machines/positions/operators (after cutting and bundling).
There is a high degree of devision of labour, planing and line balancing in order to optimise quality, output and cost.

The real distinction here is that the entire shirt is done by 1 person with a limited number of tools/less specialized and a few purely manual operations.

It's is certainly not "hand sewn", but the term "hand made" is not entirely wrong as it applies to industrial production as well as 1-man-workshops…

[Cutlasshound]

'Schirt' ordered! Excited to see the results.

Boom   

[Anesthetist]

@Cutlasshound:

'Schirt' ordered! Excited to see the results.

Boom   

Nicely done!

[Snowy]

@khaki8 is right and wrong technically;

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/handmade

hand·made adjective \ˈhan(d)-ˈmād
: made with the hands or by using hand tools

Nieten made it all with his hands & machine. It was his hands holding it, not a machine/press.

[nietenhosen]

yes, good question: what's 'hand made' and what's not.

to craft a product by hand using some tools (yeah, I do! it is an 60 years old single needle electric machine, doing straight and zigzag stitching) is 'hand made' in my eyes.
but maybe other definitions possible.

however, this is a project to have great fun, and that's what it should be in the future!

@matt: thank you, two handful of different fabrics in stock atm.

[khaki8]

Hand guided is not really hand made in my book…yes it takes more talent than having a premade guide as in a production line.....but take two shirts one made by "hand" and the other on a production line using guides.....will be the same!

[veloaudio]

Ok. I think we understand how you feel about the term 'hand made' but I suggest starting a new thread to discuss it rather than filling up this thread (a Schmidt brand thread) with discussion and debate.

[Anesthetist]

Any further discussion seems a moot point that is otherwise shitting up a good thread IMO.

[khaki8]

I was curious to hear what everyone would have to say. I see the words handmade everywhere now. The most recent was at Five Guys….yes the burger place...they say "hand spun" milkshakes. This means someone puts the ingredients in the metal container and puts in on the blender...a machine. According to this definition everything is handmade as long as someone touches it.
No offense to Schmidt....I see his logic but still thought it an interesting topic.

[mclaincausey]

Would you even want a shirt to be hand sewn? I don't see the advantage.

With saddle stitching a wallet or belt, I do see the advantage.

[Giles]

Well, the whole issue is a semantic morasse, but I do not think Khaki8 was advocating that a hand made (in his version of the phrase) shirt was better than a machines sewn one.  I think he is just exploring what actually constitutes man-made….

[mclaincausey]

Right… It's a rabbit hole, particularly if you encompass your supplies into the definition. If you want to get into picking, spinning, and looming cotton, or raising, killing, skinning, tanning, and clicking beasts, etc. Even leather artisans are using hand tools, no matter how "hand made" their stuff is.

I guess my useful clarifying question is: "was the maker's hand on the product throughout construction?"

Clearly yes with Schmidt.

[FOXY]

Coming from the apparel industry side I see these things often:
hand made, hand sewn, tailored, tailor made, bespoke, semi-bespoke, made to measure, slow made, etc.

Some of these terms have undergone a change in meaning based on how they are used and applied recently…

[4c]

Handmade basically means that it is not automated.

Iron Heart jeans are handmade, Gustin jeans are handmade, Levis jeans are handmade. In fact, I think most clothing is still handmade… robotics and complete automation = not handmade. Some clothing is more handmade than others… and some clothing is not handmade at all. I think handmade is pretty cool. I’m sure a Schmidt shirt would be amazing and so would a shirt made from handpicked heirloom cotton that is hand spun and hand-woven into cloth than hand sewn and dyed by hand with organic natural indigo. Gandhi-style! I have actually been looking for something like that from India or something where that is still done, but alas the shirts always seem too long…