Help me find an engineer boot
-
I look to the wise and experienced IH devotees to help me find an engineer boots. I'm grateful for the help and guidance.
First, some background. I posted the same request in another thread, and it was thought best that this is best as its own thread.
I’m curious how the different boot manufacturers' engineers fit. Mainly, everything but Wesco.
And here’s why; I’m preparing for the possibility that the custom engineers they built for me aren’t going to work and will be sold or returned. The short of it is that while I’ve long lusted for a pair of Mr Lous, they simply don’t fit my feet. I couldn’t get my foot into the boots the few times I tried, so Chris at Wesco suggested a custom build. So we did, and I posted them recently. But after several years, they never really broke in, and the heels continue to slip badly, to the point of blisters.
So, I’m curious how the other popular brands of engineer boots fit. To a finer point, I’m blessed (or cursed?) with a wide forefoot and a high and bony instep. Basically, a foot shape not great for engineers. The kicker, though, is that I’ve found several cowboy boot manufacturers that fit great, so I know it’s possible to own a pair of well-fitting pull-on boots.
Which makers or models would you suggest I check out?
-
@pechelman I would question this. My Lofgrens are a pain in the butt to get in, even after several years. Once in, however, they are the most comfortable ones.
-
I don’t have advice, but I will say that heel slip can’t be expected to go away. It may, and it may not, but it’s considered acceptable to have some measure of it in engineers.
I wonder if a side zip would be better for you?
-
@Dmart said in Help me find an engineer boot:
That’s weird. I never had big issues getting into the Lou‘s, custom or not, but always find it difficult to get into the Lofgrens.
I've heard this about the Lofgrens; difficult to get on. It's a bit of a process. That usually tells me that the pass-through or pass line is pretty narrow on the Lofgrens. And check me on my assumption here with the Lofgrens: because they are Japanese, they would tend to have a narrower, lower volume fit, yes? Or am I way off?
@mclaincausey said in Help me find an engineer boot:
I don’t have advice, but I will say that heel slip can’t be expected to go away. It may, and it may not, but it’s considered acceptable to have some measure of it in engineers.
I wonder if a side zip would be better for you?
Yes, I've heard the same regarding heel slip; sometimes the boot conforms to the foot, and heel slip goes away, and sometimes it doesn't. My pair hasn't. Mind you, it's a beefy sole, and the Horween horsehide is tough, but it's a lot of heel slip.
To quantify the heel slip, there's more heel slip currently than what you'd typically find in a fresh pair of western boots. As in, the boots thunk a bit with each step, which seems to be a lot more heel slip than expected.
While western and engineer boots are different in their construction, they do seem to fit similarly, hence why I'm asking about which models I might look at.
As for the side zip, it's certainly a possibility. What I tend to run into with pull-on style boots - chelsea and zip, especially - is an instep that puts too much pressure on the top of my foot. But, given my collection of western boots, I remain hopeful that I can find a pair of engineers that fit.
-
I second the opinion that Lofgrens are very difficult to get your feet into. I’ve worn my pair 25-30x now and it still hasn’t gotten any easier. However once on they are very comfortable. I have wider and higher volume feet. My most comfortable and also easiest pair to put on are my Attractions. Lot 444. Still breaking in both the black and brown pairs but really liking them. Hope this helps.
-
ill add that I also had custom ordered a pair of Nicks engineers, forget what they call them, but it had an even higher instep than what i recall the lofgrens being and probably ~2X what my wescos have. These were even custom ordered in a C width compared to the Wesco D. They also had a bunch of toe room. Pics here from an old post
https://forum.ironheart.co.uk//post/735277 -
If you have trouble getting your foot into engineers look into using a ski boot jack (google it). It's opened up a lot of possibilities in boots where I couldn't get my foot into them otherwise and once in it fits ok.
I have a high instep and have found good success with Flat Head and Attractions. They fit the best but also can wear Viberg, Role Club and Lofgren Engineers. I can wear Mister Lous but my are probably the worst fitting that I've owned for my feet. -
I’ve had Logren, Wesco Mr Lou, Whites, Flatheads and Y2. The Flatheads are my most comfortable, followed by Mr Lous. Everyone’s feet are different so this can be very subjective.
-
If you can’t get your foot into a Wesco Mr. Lou I would say you have .1% chance of ever getting your foot into a Lofgren. I say that kind of jokingly, definitely stay away from Shinki leather that would be impossible. Lofgren boots to me are more difficult to get on but on have a little more volume than a Mr. Lou.
-
I have nothing to add other than good luck on your quest. Luckily for my wallet, I don’t have the engineer boot infliction like some of the members here have. Rest assured that there is a lot of insight here regarding Engineer boots and I’m sure you’ll get lots of good advice. Looking forward to seeing what you eventually settle on.
-
In my experience:
- Wesco Boss 9D roughout - easy to get on, loose in the heel, wide in the toe but a touch too short
- Skoob Wander 8.5D in horsebutt - really difficult to get on initially, have become easier with time, but still need a boot jack to take them off. The fit once on is excellent though, there was no real break in as such, even made of such a stiff material.
- John Lofgren 9D in CXL - for me at least, easier to get on and off than their reputation suggests and have freed up to the point that I don't need a boot jack to take them off. THey were a little narrow initially but have broken in to be comfortable in that area. That's largely down to the CXL I think. Aesthetically I think they're probably the best looking engineers available.
Context regarding my feet. Brannock sizing - 9.5D left, 8.5D right so sizing is always a compromise. I'd say I have a medium instep, certainly not low. Nothing beats trying them on though TBH, engineers more than any other kind of boot IMO.
-
I feel personally attacked
My wife asked me the other day how many more “buckle boots” do you need?
-
I may be parroting what other people have already said…
Forgive me if you’ve already mentioned it elsewhere, but have you ever been properly Brannocked? Do you know your heel-to-ball, heel-to-toe, and width measurements? You might find that most off-the-shelf D or even E widths aren’t quite wide enough for your feet.
For reference, I’m an 11.5 D on the Brannock. In Wesco, I either go 11 E or stay true to size at 11.5 D. Honestly, there isn’t a huge width difference between the two and on some pairs of both sizes, I’ve actually had to pull the Wesco leather insole and swap in a thin Pedag insert to get the fit right or fine-tune with sock thickness. Before you give up on those Wesco’s if you haven’t already I would remove that insert and see how they feel.
If you’re open to it Nicks is worth a look. Their Stationmaster last has a bit more room, and they offer several width options, which might solve your fit issue. I’ve had two pairs and really liked them. If you like the Mr. Lou aesthetic, you can spec something similar — maybe a half Dr. Sole or V-bar outsole, soft toe, 10” height, and classic heel (dogger or logger). The only catch is their lead times they tend to run longer on engineers, usually seven to eight months. Once again, if you know you’re Brannock and you use their sizing instructions you could probably dial in something that would work for you.
Another option and this is more for an engineer you’re not planning to beat up too hard (though you totally could) is going made-to-measure with Unsung. Definitely on the pricey side, but well worth it. I’m on my second pair now, and for ME they’re more of a “refined” boot. I don’t wear them on job sites, I save those miles for the rougher pairs.
Of course, there’s lots of other options out there, but for somebody that struggles with a Mister Lou I would say stay away from all of them as they all have their quirks on fit.
Edit: of course unless you can try something on in person,
-
I have four pairs of engineers and have owned a fifth (Black CXL Lofgrens) that I sold because they were nearly impossible to get on and off for a while until finally (barely) breaking in. Even then they were too small, but I attribute that to my big feet and the fact that they only go up to 12 (I suspect that a 13, if they made one, would be much more doable). Despite the obvious challenge there, I can definitely say that the overall volume of those boots is smaller than others I’ve owned.
The four I have at the moment: Mr Lou in Nat CXL (12E, fit well but a little tight on the top of my foot), Mr Lou TSV Petrolio (12.5E, which it seems is my ideal Wesco), Flat Heat Black CXL 12, and Role Club custom fit RC1940.
Overall I’d say that the Wescos probably wouldn’t be great for your foot, but you already know this. I think they’re super comfortable, but the sort of low volume over the top of the foot is a potential problem are for a lot of people, myself included.
The Role Clubs are probably my best fitting boots because they’re designed just for me, which is why I got them in the first place. It’s really tough to find engineers that are perfect for anyone, and I was especially running into an issue with the fact that I’m often just a little bigger than the biggest size most brands make (12). That said, I wouldn’t recommend the Role Club route. They’re beautiful for sure, but they’re also absurdly expensive, and dealing with Brian can be a pain. I won’t get into it, but there is some BS you have to deal with when buying from him, and don’t think the customer service experience correlates at all with the purchase of what I think of as a very luxury item. In short, he isn’t a bad guy, but boy he can be frustrating.
My Flat Heads are extremely comfortable, and I would recommend you giving them a shot IF you’re anywhere near a Self Edge and can try some on. They fit large, a good whole size, not unlike Rolling Dub Trio, another brand that I’ve found to be quite roomy in not a bad way. Also from what I understand, they’re made in the same factory that makes Lofgren, and I find the craftsmanship very much on par.
I hope this is helpful. It really is a tough thing getting them dialed. I’d also take a look at Red Wing’s engineers — they appear roomy to me. Also I feel like White’s offerings are a good option, as they’re priced lower (not to mention you can get them during either the June or Black Friday sales) and customizable. I LOVE White’s other offerings.
-
There's some really good stuff here. I knew there would be some great responses because not only are there quite a few discerning owners here, all of you have multiple pairs - truly afflicted like me, and willing to toss me into the deep end. I love it!
Let's get to it:
@smittybat said in Help me find an engineer boot:
If you have trouble getting your foot into engineers look into using a ski boot jack (google it). It's opened up a lot of possibilities in boots where I couldn't get my foot into them otherwise and once in it fits ok.
I have a high instep and have found good success with Flat Head and Attractions. They fit the best but also can wear Viberg, Role Club and Lofgren Engineers. I can wear Mister Lous but my are probably the worst fitting that I've owned for my feet.I'm a lifetime skier, having raced in my formative years. And while I don't mind a long-handled shoe horn to get on a pair of boots, I'm probably leaving a ski boot jack as a last resort.
Good info on the Flat Heads and Attractions. Thank you. Your experience with the Mr Lou tracks with my experience, so this helps to confirm what I've encountered. Beautiful boots to be sure, but ones for a specific foot type, and mine aren't it.
@northsouthdenimguy said in Help me find an engineer boot:
If you can’t get your foot into a Wesco Mr. Lou I would say you have .1% chance of ever getting your foot into a Lofgren. I say that kind of jokingly, definitely stay away from Shinki leather that would be impossible. Lofgren boots to me are more difficult to get on but on have a little more volume than a Mr. Lou.
All good. That confirms what I've read and watched about Lofgrens.
@NickD said in Help me find an engineer boot:
In my experience:
- Wesco Boss 9D roughout - easy to get on, loose in the heel, wide in the toe but a touch too short
- Skoob Wander 8.5D in horsebutt - really difficult to get on initially, have become easier with time, but still need a boot jack to take them off. The fit once on is excellent though, there was no real break in as such, even made of such a stiff material.
- John Lofgren 9D in CXL - for me at least, easier to get on and off than their reputation suggests and have freed up to the point that I don't need a boot jack to take them off. THey were a little narrow initially but have broken in to be comfortable in that area. That's largely down to the CXL I think. Aesthetically I think they're probably the best looking engineers available.
Context regarding my feet. Brannock sizing - 9.5D left, 8.5D right so sizing is always a compromise. I'd say I have a medium instep, certainly not low. Nothing beats trying them on though TBH, engineers more than any other kind of boot IMO.
Agreed on being able to try them on. I'm lucky that Wesco is an hour away, Drew's and Truman are both about two hours south of me. If I wanted to get spicy, Nick's, White's, and JK's are all up in Spokane, about six hours from me.
I think when I originally started to find my first engineers, I was hyper-focused on the instep as that's always caused me problems in anything pull-on outside of properly fitting western boots. And in doing so, I didn't know and didn't consider the amount of break in that an engineer will require.
Of the leathers that you own or have owned, which broke in the most for you?
@northsouthdenimguy said in Help me find an engineer boot:
I feel personally attacked
My wife asked me the other day how many more “buckle boots” do you need?
Oh, the answer is always n+1. This is the case with motorcycles, watches, selvage denim, and most certainly hand-crafted boots.
@northsouthdenimguy said in Help me find an engineer boot:
I may be parroting what other people have already said…
Forgive me if you’ve already mentioned it elsewhere, but have you ever been properly Brannocked? Do you know your heel-to-ball, heel-to-toe, and width measurements? You might find that most off-the-shelf D or even E widths aren’t quite wide enough for your feet.
For reference, I’m an 11.5 D on the Brannock. In Wesco, I either go 11 E or stay true to size at 11.5 D. Honestly, there isn’t a huge width difference between the two and on some pairs of both sizes, I’ve actually had to pull the Wesco leather insole and swap in a thin Pedag insert to get the fit right or fine-tune with sock thickness. Before you give up on those Wesco’s if you haven’t already I would remove that insert and see how they feel.
If you’re open to it Nicks is worth a look. Their Stationmaster last has a bit more room, and they offer several width options, which might solve your fit issue. I’ve had two pairs and really liked them. If you like the Mr. Lou aesthetic, you can spec something similar — maybe a half Dr. Sole or V-bar outsole, soft toe, 10” height, and classic heel (dogger or logger). The only catch is their lead times they tend to run longer on engineers, usually seven to eight months. Once again, if you know you’re Brannock and you use their sizing instructions you could probably dial in something that would work for you.
Another option and this is more for an engineer you’re not planning to beat up too hard (though you totally could) is going made-to-measure with Unsung. Definitely on the pricey side, but well worth it. I’m on my second pair now, and for ME they’re more of a “refined” boot. I don’t wear them on job sites, I save those miles for the rougher pairs.
Of course, there’s lots of other options out there, but for somebody that struggles with a Mister Lou I would say stay away from all of them as they all have their quirks on fit.
Edit: of course unless you can try something on in person,
Great points about the measurements. It's been years since I've slid into a Brannock device, mainly because the closest Red Wing store maps your foot and no longer uses the device. I have measured, however.
On the measurements, I tape out to 10 EE on the Brannock, which puts me in a 9.5 E Motor Patrol last from Wesco. The Guildsman (fka The Alex) is a 9.5 E and fits well. In the customer-ordered Wesco engineers I mentioned, it's a 9, though I'm not sure the width; likely an EE or wider. They're wide. I have the other measurements from the fitting exercise with Wesco, but I need to dig those out.
Trumans are a 9.5 EE in their work last though the heels is a bit generous.
I'll give the Pedag insert a look. I think the issue with my custom Wescos is that I erred too much on the side of width and room, and I'm now lacking proper snuggness over the middle portion of my foot. Too many pull-on boots over the year crushed my bony instep. So I assume that too much room is causing way too much heel slip.
Nick's are on my radar, though, for a pair of proper loggers. While looking at those builds, I did notice their engineer options. My intent with the engineers is casual, if a bit refined. I'll reach out to Nick's and start a dialogue.
@popvulture said in Help me find an engineer boot:
I have four pairs of engineers and have owned a fifth (Black CXL Lofgrens) that I sold because they were nearly impossible to get on and off for a while until finally (barely) breaking in. Even then they were too small, but I attribute that to my big feet and the fact that they only go up to 12 (I suspect that a 13, if they made one, would be much more doable). Despite the obvious challenge there, I can definitely say that the overall volume of those boots is smaller than others I’ve owned.
The four I have at the moment: Mr Lou in Nat CXL (12E, fit well but a little tight on the top of my foot), Mr Lou TSV Petrolio (12.5E, which it seems is my ideal Wesco), Flat Heat Black CXL 12, and Role Club custom fit RC1940.
Overall I’d say that the Wescos probably wouldn’t be great for your foot, but you already know this. I think they’re super comfortable, but the sort of low volume over the top of the foot is a potential problem are for a lot of people, myself included.
The Role Clubs are probably my best fitting boots because they’re designed just for me, which is why I got them in the first place. It’s really tough to find engineers that are perfect for anyone, and I was especially running into an issue with the fact that I’m often just a little bigger than the biggest size most brands make (12). That said, I wouldn’t recommend the Role Club route. They’re beautiful for sure, but they’re also absurdly expensive, and dealing with Brian can be a pain. I won’t get into it, but there is some BS you have to deal with when buying from him, and don’t think the customer service experience correlates at all with the purchase of what I think of as a very luxury item. In short, he isn’t a bad guy, but boy he can be frustrating.
My Flat Heads are extremely comfortable, and I would recommend you giving them a shot IF you’re anywhere near a Self Edge and can try some on. They fit large, a good whole size, not unlike Rolling Dub Trio, another brand that I’ve found to be quite roomy in not a bad way. Also from what I understand, they’re made in the same factory that makes Lofgren, and I find the craftsmanship very much on par.
I hope this is helpful. It really is a tough thing getting them dialed. I’d also take a look at Red Wing’s engineers — they appear roomy to me. Also, I feel like White’s offerings are a good option, as they’re priced lower (not to mention you can get them during either the June or Black Friday sales) and customizable. I LOVE White’s other offerings.
I hear you on Wesco. While I'm still working with Chris on what might make these fit better, I think their patterns may not be a good match for my foot type, despite the custom build. Then again, my custom build may be at fault.
And thanks for the tip on Role Clubs. My experience with Wesco was great, and I'll admit to being a bit out of my element when ordering a pair; anything less wouldn't be a good experience.
Self Edge PDX is down the road. It's a tiny store, but I'll see about stock and sizing. Flat Head seems to be getting some great feedback thus far.
Related, you mentioned several different leather types. I asked @NickD the same: how do you find the different leathers you've owned to break in?
And yes, this has been very helpful. Thank you.
-
@Bobcat-Sig most of my boots over the years have been various forms of Chromexcel. I feel like you see people knocking it a lot online (people talking about the "CXL Lottery" etc.), but frankly I've never been disappointed. Sure you might end up with one boot that has leather that creases slightly different than the other or something, but this is organic stuff we're talking about. It patinas well, cleans up well, and never requires much break-in, if any. Particular faves: natty and waxed-flesh.
My Role Clubs are horse — I think they're Horween as well, but I could be wrong there. They were very easy to break in and are aging in a really cool way. The TSV Petrolio Mr. Lous are very cool horsehide that has a bit of that weird, scaly patterning to it that almost looks like alligator or something. That might sound odd, but I imagine you know what I'm talking about if you've seen it. It's some natural phenomenon of the leather (I've seen it on some regular CXL as well, albeit to a lesser degree). Anyway, that is also cool leather, very stiff compared to the other stuff I've had, and required a bit more break-in.