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Motor Sport

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  • T
    Tago Mago
    Mod Squad
    @motojobobo
    Joined: 16 Jan 2021

    @motojobobo Ducati has been owned by Volkswagen since 2012, not exactly a David versus Goliath story

    last edited by 30 Mar 2025, 14:38 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
    • M
      motojobobo
      啓蒙家
      Joined: 22 Aug 2015

      Very fair to point out that fact @Tago-Mago .
      Do you have any data whether the investment levels in Ducati racing skyrocketed after 2012?

      The journey is the objective.

      last edited by 30 Mar 2025, 17:25 T 1 Reply Last reply 30 Mar 2025, 19:21 Reply Quote 0
      • T
        Tago Mago
        Mod Squad
        @motojobobo
        Joined: 16 Jan 2021

        @motojobobo @Aetas has pointed out to me that Ducati sells roughly 60k bikes a year vs 19.6m for Honda (not sure if this also includes scooters). Maybe VW isn't pouring their entire R&D budget into Moto GP 😂 . Also, Ducati is technically controlled by Audi AFAIK, who, besides having major problems of their own right now, have bought what used to be Sauber and are preparing to enter F1. So you are probably right in saying that they are small fish compared to Honda and Yamaha

        last edited by Tago Mago 30 Mar 2025, 19:21 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
        • M
          motojobobo
          啓蒙家
          Joined: 22 Aug 2015

          I didn’t have the numbers to back it up but the situation you describe is + or - the way I understood it.
          Makes it all the more intriguing of a story…since it cannot be financially explained away…has Ducati, quietly and meekly, produced an extraordinary engineering feat???

          The journey is the objective.

          last edited by 30 Mar 2025, 20:53 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
          • A
            Aetas
            見習いボス
            Joined: 19 Jun 2013

            Perhaps one key for the dominance of Ducati is Luigi Dall'Igna.
            1995 till 2012 he was with Aprilia in the MotoGP.
            From 2013 the head constructor for Ducati.
            He invented the Desmosedici GP15 and improved her till today.

            last edited by Aetas 31 Mar 2025, 04:55 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
            • L
              louisbosco
              啓蒙家
              @motojobobo
              Joined: 21 Feb 2013

              @motojobobo just as I said that, Marquez has gone and crashed in the race 🤦♂ I guess that'll make the season more exciting

              but I agree with you on the dominance of Ducati in the recent years. I haven't watched it long but I remember the glory days of Yamaha and when Marquez was with Honda.

              I don't think the corporate ownership has anything to do with racing but it's more of how they've developed this v4 platform over the years

              "Loyalty is a two way street. If i'm asking for it from you, then you're getting it from me."

              • Harvey Specter
              last edited by 31 Mar 2025, 11:55 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
              • N
                NickD
                Raw and Unwashed
                Joined: 17 Nov 2024

                I'm a massive Ducati fan (one of my bikes is a Panigale V2) so I'm not entirely unbiased.

                Ducati are spending fairly big sums on racing, it's not a drop in the ocean, but IMO where they got ahead was in making the bike fast intially, and then improving the chassis. It wasn't until 2017 that they had any realistic chance of winning the championship. They also stole a march on everyone else in terms of the aero and the ride height devices, and they are still reaping the benefits from that.

                Honda's mistake was building a bike that Marc could ride and no-once else, it doesn't help development when you have a generational talent masking where your bike isn't so good - it's better to have Pecco and Martin developing a bike than, say, Marc, Acosta, or TR in World Superbike where they ride in a way that can't be replicated reasonably by another rider.

                Also, I agree that the corporate ownership isn't necessarily that important (Ducati was really successful in the 90's when financially they were on the bones of their arse), but the trickle down effect on the road bikes will definitely help justifying the cost of the race team in a way that F1 perhaps doesn't. A v4 or v2 Panigale has the same intrinsic strengths and weaknesses (fast, good into and coming out of a corner, not so good in the middle) as the Desmosedici, and an R1, like the M1 is an amazing handling bike, but not as quick in a straight line.

                last edited by 31 Mar 2025, 12:09 G 1 Reply Last reply 31 Mar 2025, 12:20 Reply Quote 1
                • G
                  Giles
                  IHUK Crew
                  @NickD
                  Joined: 22 Sept 2009

                  @NickD said in Motor Sport:

                  it doesn't help development when you have a generational talent masking where your bike isn't so good

                  Max, Car....

                  "OK face up to it - you're useless but generally pretty honest and straightforward . . . it's a rare combination of qualities that I have come to admire in you" - Geo 2011

                  last edited by Giles 31 Mar 2025, 12:20 L 1 Reply Last reply 31 Mar 2025, 13:37 Reply Quote 3
                  • L
                    louisbosco
                    啓蒙家
                    @Giles
                    Joined: 21 Feb 2013

                    @Giles great video this showing the comparisons between max and Liam. you can see Liam always breaks later but makes numerous adjustments in the corner and is afraid of the throttle and the rear snapping when exiting. costs him a lot over a lap..

                    "Loyalty is a two way street. If i'm asking for it from you, then you're getting it from me."

                    • Harvey Specter
                    last edited by louisbosco 31 Mar 2025, 13:37 B 1 Reply Last reply 31 Mar 2025, 14:14 Reply Quote 0
                    • B
                      Bridger
                      Raw and Unwashed
                      @louisbosco
                      Joined: 3 Mar 2021

                      Cool vid @louisbosco, thanks for sharing.

                      You're right about the breaking. Max seems pretty patient with the breaking - possibly to be kinder on the tires or because it helps his acceleration out of the corner, which seemed faster than Lawson.

                      Fingers are crossed for Yuki.

                      last edited by 31 Mar 2025, 14:14 L 1 Reply Last reply 31 Mar 2025, 14:36 Reply Quote 0
                      • L
                        louisbosco
                        啓蒙家
                        @Bridger
                        Joined: 21 Feb 2013

                        @Bridger there was an interview with lawson maybe within the last year where he was describing the car as "twitchy" and how pointy it was, and that was how max likes it. (the car)

                        going back to the fact that this car was designed for max and max alone..

                        "Loyalty is a two way street. If i'm asking for it from you, then you're getting it from me."

                        • Harvey Specter
                        last edited by 31 Mar 2025, 14:36 B 1 Reply Last reply 31 Mar 2025, 14:46 Reply Quote 0
                        • G
                          Giles
                          IHUK Crew
                          Joined: 22 Sept 2009

                          Thanks Louis....

                          "OK face up to it - you're useless but generally pretty honest and straightforward . . . it's a rare combination of qualities that I have come to admire in you" - Geo 2011

                          last edited by 31 Mar 2025, 14:44 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                          • B
                            Bridger
                            Raw and Unwashed
                            @louisbosco
                            Joined: 3 Mar 2021

                            You're right @louisbosco

                            Putting all the eggs in Max's basket is not going to win them a manufacturer's championship

                            last edited by 31 Mar 2025, 14:46 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                            • W
                              WhiskeySandwich
                              啓蒙家
                              Joined: 1 Mar 2023

                              ....oh speaking of Stroll - here's in case you didn't see the 2024 RPM awards show.

                              "The greatest obstacle to living is expectancy, which hangs upon tomorrow and loses today...The whole future lies in uncertainty: Live immediately."
                              -Seneca

                              last edited by 31 Mar 2025, 18:28 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                              • G
                                Giles
                                IHUK Crew
                                Joined: 22 Sept 2009

                                Well, fuck me, Red Bull being extraordinarily creative and completely thinking outside the box......

                                Tsunoda told to be 'as close to Verstappen as possible'

                                I'm in awe....

                                "OK face up to it - you're useless but generally pretty honest and straightforward . . . it's a rare combination of qualities that I have come to admire in you" - Geo 2011

                                last edited by Giles 4 Feb 2025, 20:23 2 Apr 2025, 20:23 L M 2 Replies Last reply 2 Apr 2025, 22:28 Reply Quote 0
                                • B
                                  Bridger
                                  Raw and Unwashed
                                  Joined: 3 Mar 2021

                                  The Bulls have always nurtured their second drivers. A warm welcome with warm words of support. Simply lovely.

                                  last edited by 2 Apr 2025, 20:32 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                  • L
                                    louisbosco
                                    啓蒙家
                                    @Giles
                                    Joined: 21 Feb 2013

                                    @Giles after recent events, I'm sure the team had to reiterate the objective for the season

                                    "Loyalty is a two way street. If i'm asking for it from you, then you're getting it from me."

                                    • Harvey Specter
                                    last edited by 2 Apr 2025, 22:28 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                    • M
                                      mclaincausey
                                      見習いボス
                                      @Giles
                                      Joined: 12 Apr 2013

                                      @Giles well look at the big brains on team Red Bull! 🤣

                                      Think it, be it.

                                      last edited by 3 Apr 2025, 00:28 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                      • M
                                        mclaincausey
                                        見習いボス
                                        Joined: 12 Apr 2013

                                        My kid shouted “GO LANDO!” at the ballet. So I got that going for me 🤣

                                        Think it, be it.

                                        last edited by 7 Apr 2025, 12:30 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                        • M
                                          mclaincausey
                                          見習いボス
                                          Joined: 12 Apr 2013

                                          Incredibly boring race with Max P1 almose wore to wire and McLaren bins the strategy. I’ve seen that movie before…

                                          Think it, be it.

                                          last edited by 7 Apr 2025, 12:38 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
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