Random questions to which you seek an answer
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@popvulture totally agree with this!
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@popvulture said in Random questions to which you seek an answer:
@Alex I hear ya, man — I always appreciate the huge attention to detail IH UK puts in, and I saw this issue as being more on the Japan end of things. I'm keeping my fingers crossed that this isn't a long term change they decided to make, as they're details I'd hate to see disappear.
I understand what you're saying, when I say that it was an issue with the factory, I mean with the third party factory, not WORKS INC. It likely would have come as a surprise to Haraki too. If it was a planned long term change by WORKS, we would have been informed.
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@Alex ahhh ok I see! Thank you for clarifying that
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@popvulture said in Random questions to which you seek an answer:
also saw that the rear pockets are no longer lined.
thought i recalled someone asking something like this a while ago and the answer was something like that the original / early runs of this forgot to include the lined pocket detail and the spec to the factory never got updated on repeat runs. So maybe it's not that it was missing but maybe it was never there to start? Similar to how some (or all?) of the UHR's include copper buttons because Gile's was on a copper kick at the time and then it never got updated, so that's how the factory builds them.
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This post is deleted!
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@pechelman said in Random questions to which you seek an answer:
@popvulture said in Random questions to which you seek an answer:
also saw that the rear pockets are no longer lined.
thought i recalled someone asking something like this a while ago and the answer was something like that the original / early runs of this forgot to include the lined pocket detail and the spec to the factory never got updated on repeat runs. So maybe it's not that it was missing but maybe it was never there to start? Similar to how some (or all?) of the UHR's include copper buttons because Gile's was on a copper kick at the time and then it never got updated, so that's how the factory builds them.
Quite possibly, my memory only goes back to when I started working at IH, but the general point remains that time to time, the factory fucks up and things change. Chainstitch run off on work shirts being present then missing run to run, would be an obvious example
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@pechelman yesterday when I was fishing around, I did see something from way back that indicated the earliest 634XHS having unlined pockets, but as far as I know they eventually became a regular feature.
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@popvulture ah, yea, found what i had remembered as well
https://www.ironheart.co.uk/forum//post/806525
and
https://www.ironheart.co.uk/forum//post/599677 -
Haha I could be totally wrong about them becoming regular features, based both on that previous bit of info from Giles and from what I'm seeing at a few retailers. Selvedge fly and lined pockets are often listed as features, but then there will be a pic of the fly and it's flatlock instead of selvedge (Division Road and R&H, for example). This seems to be the case with some 634XHS and 21oz. Obviously you can't see whether or not the pockets are lined in the pics.
Whatever the case, It really could be one of those things that, like Giles said, made it in for some models but has yet to happen in others. I guess the biggest lesson is that it's always good for me to double check the specs and know what I'm getting.
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@Kingmob31 I believe the crew measures every restock so the size is correct.
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@popvulture I have a vague memory of trying on the anniversary 634's from a few years ago and being surprised about the lockstitch rather than selvedge fly as I was used to the selvedge fly from the 888, and I feel like @Giles or @Graham told me that 634 was developed with lockstitch fly and then with the other cuts came up with the idea of the selvedge fly. And then because Haraki feels that the design of the 634 was made that way it should stay that way. So the different fly is an expression of design uniqueness of the certain cut. Could be remembering this incorrectly. Also sounds like some of your 634's do have selvedge fly?
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@popvulture said in Random questions to which you seek an answer:
I recently started a pair of 634XHS, and I noticed that the fly no longer has selvedge detail on the inside. After looking elsewhere, I also saw that the rear pockets are no longer lined. Both of these details were also missing on a pair of 21OD I bought earlier this year (a pair of SBG still had them).
Given IH’s tendency to put so much stake in the overbuilt theme, I was really surprised to see these features removed. I don’t remember seeing this discussed anywhere, but I might have just missed jt. Anyway, I’m mainly just wondering — what’s the story here? My biggest hope would be that this isn’t a permanent change.
Did they ever have those features to be removed?
Selvedge fly and lined rear pockets were never a thing until I specced the original IH-666S.
When we made the original runs on 634 and 666 XHS, the base models from which we derived the XHS versions, were the IH-634S (which did not have selvedge fly or lined rear pockets) and the IH-666S (which did have selvedge fly and lined rear pockets), those characteristics carried over to the XHS versions.
All versions of 555, 666, 777 and 888 should have selvedge fly and lined rear pockets because the base models that I specced would have had them. The 634 is the exception.
I did try and get those features incorporated into every jean we made, but I guess there are some models that never got updated....
The IH-1955 has lined rear pockets but not a selvedge fly because I forgot to spec it, and then did not notice on the first sample it was missing.
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Much appreciated, @Giles — that all makes perfect sense. Also cool to know a little more of the history.
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@Nik yep, that all tracks now. I wondered about the possibility of Haraki wanting to keep the 634 original spec, which would definitely be logical. To answer your question about other 634 though, yes — all the others aside from XHS and 21oz (plus their overdyed variants like regular OD and Mad Black) seem to have the lined pockets and selvedge fly.
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@Giles said in Random questions to which you seek an answer:
The IH-1955 has lined rear pockets but not a selvedge fly because I forgot to spec it, and then did not notice on the first sample it was missing.
I only found out recently that the reason some of our jeans don't have flashers is because @Giles forgot to specifically request them when he did the first run, he just assumed saying 'all details the same as IH-634S except fit like sample xyz was enough (as I would have done) but apparently not. Now we are so far down the line, we are not allowed to add them retroactivley as it would 'confuse the factory'
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@Alex Something I’ve never asked but your post has intrigued me: When you guys are discussing new items with Japan, I always assumed it was in English and Serena (or predecessors) translated the details as needed.
In a case like the selvedge flys…would that have been a translational issue between IHUK and IH-Japan or between IH-Japan and the factories. Not looking for places to find fault, but curious how complex it is dealing with multiple factories, people, and language in all of the equation for goods to reach the market.
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@goosehd said in Random questions to which you seek an answer:
@Alex Something I’ve never asked but your post has intrigued me: When you guys are discussing new items with Japan, I always assumed it was in English and Serena (or predecessors) translated the details as needed.
In a case like the selvedge flys…would that have been a translational issue between IHUK and IH-Japan or between IH-Japan and the factories. Not looking for places to find fault, but curious how complex it is dealing with multiple factories, people, and language in all of the equation for goods to reach the market.
if the issue was that someone forgot to put a detail on a aproduct physically, it would be a Japanese:Japanese communication issue
If the issue was that someone forgot to request a specific detail (eg flyers above) it would be a cultural translation fail, not a language one. We assume, they do not
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@Tago-Mago I am, yes. And yes, I think it makes things easier for me than they were for Dad in this sort of case