What do you consider "raw" denim to mean?
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To me raw denim means loomstate.
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I would love to see the vintage denim as loomstate.
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For me it can be sanforised or not but deffo unwashed.
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Raw means loomstate to folks who know and are into denim or fabrics
To folks who don’t know about denim raw is anything that isn’t washed out and distressed like girbaud jeans from the 90s
It’s kind of pedantic when you think about it but it’s akin to folks with any hobby and go deep down the rabbit
hole and look down on folks who don’t know this car has a certain motor and only came in pearl white and puke green in 1977.good topic @neph93 the comments for the article are awesome
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Lot of horseshit being written on that comments section… 'scuse my language.
Seems to me there are two camps. For the one group, raw means that the face of the denim retains an even distribution of indigo (no artificial fading, washes etc), so this would include sanforised and one-wash denim. For the other it's loomstate only. I'd also be in that second camp, as would our beloved patron and enabler-in-chief it would seem https://www.ironheart.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=4552.msg242109#msg242109
I've got nothing against sanforised denim (obviously, I'm an IH fan) and one-wash denim is a good idea if like me the whole loomstate denim is sometimes a bit too scary to contemplate (I have a 50/50 success rate on the UHR and at $400 a pop that's bad odds) but this whole "raw" thing is a bit weird because it seems to me it's just become a marketing tool like the selvedge ID. One guy on the article comments threads quotes Tellason as saying "it's all raw" and it just makes me think of that whole "Made in America" schtick that just turned out to be a a pile of bull when Cone Mills announced their imminent closure and all these US brands started saying "Chinese denim is actually great". Good denim is not all raw, in fact most of it isn't, but if you know your denim you'll know it doesn't have to be, to be "genuine" or "unique" or just plain excellent (21oz anyone?).
It should be said I'm writing this while wearing UHR, and I'll agree with the above comments, H-san could do a lot worse than developing a new loomstate fabric. I'd love me some of that, I'm sure. Probably have to buy two pairs to get it right though…
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you hit it on the head about the marketing tool. tbh that's what it comes down to with most things.
random/ off topic'ish but i'll put it here anyway:
loomstate is overrated and never shrinks enough for me until like the fourth or fifth wash. i rather sanforized because i'm a wuss and hate spending money to try to shrink my denim to fit. i like the guesswork taken out the entire more art than science concept of shrinking denim. in a perfect world i would be able to purchase UHRs pre-shrunk in any IronHeart cut I want (301s or 555s) well made, quality and interesting denim that fits.
you use a lot of words neph, what you mean about 21oz denim?
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For me raw is loomstate.
I am on the flip side of Monday, I love the guesswork and kinda get a buzz from the unknown. My first pair of loomstate jeans were a pair of samurai’s that I ordered from 2nd. I had to use google translate as they didn’t speak English or very little at the time. Was the most fun I had ordering jeans and managed to get the sizing right too.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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you hit it on the head about the marketing tool. tbh that's what it comes down to with most things.
random/ off topic'ish but i'll put it here anyway:
loomstate is overrated and never shrinks enough for me until like the fourth or fifth wash. i rather sanforized because i'm a wuss and hate spending money to try to shrink my denim to fit. i like the guesswork taken out the entire more art than science concept of shrinking denim. in a perfect world i would be able to purchase UHRs pre-shrunk in any IronHeart cut I want (301s or 555s) well made, quality and interesting denim that fits.
you use a lot of words neph, what you mean about 21oz denim?
I actually disagree and will say that loomstate is underrated. The reasons you just gave for not preferring loomstate denim seems to be a much more popular opinion than actually enjoying loomstate denim. IIRC Giles even stated that the UHR did not sell as well as they would have like for those reasons. Most people don't like the unpredictable nature of loomstate, therefore underrated IMO.
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For me raw is loomstate.
I am on the flip side of Monday, I love the guesswork and kinda get a buzz from the unknown. My first pair of loomstate jeans were a pair of samurai’s that I ordered from 2nd. I had to use google translate as they didn’t speak English or very little at the time. Was the most fun I had ordering jeans and managed to get the sizing right too.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
+1
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To me RAW = loomstate. That is probably why 85% of the jeans I have purchased off of this site are the UHR. And are my favorites.
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Yep, as said above, raw=loomstate for me. However, I think it's mostly BS marketing, as also said above. I don't particularly care what processing has or hasn't been done. Just give me accurate measurements and tell me what's been done. I can figure it out from there all by myself. I buy jeans based on whether I think the denim is interesting, and if I think they'll (eventually) fit.
Sometimes I get the second part of that wrong, like I did with both pairs of Studio d'Artisan jeans I've owned…
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the comments for the article are awesome
This one just makes my head hurt:
"The Sanforization process is designed to remove potential shrinkage from the fabric by moistening it with water or steam – that's a far cry from stone washing jeans. It's also functionally no different than unsanforized denim, as an educated buyer knows to soak an unsanforized pair prior to the first wear. So unsanforized and sanforized are essentially identical by the time the buyer puts on the jeans for the first time."Huh?
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Raw is synonymous with loomstate. Loomstate means exactly what comes off the loom, with zero post weave processing (inc washing or soaking).
And also contrary to what some people in the industry think, there are different "strengths" of sanforisation. Not all sanforisation is the same…..
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you use a lot of words neph, what you mean about 21oz denim?
It was a pre bedtime post, and I have a rule, “Why use one word when you can use 259?”
It’s edited for clarity now but my point was that great denim doesn’t have to be raw to be excellent, unique etc and the 21oz is a good example of that. It was tonnes of character despite it’s smooth even face, heavy sanforisation and fade retardant treatment. Hell, the SB denim isn’t even selvedge and doesn’t fade and is still more interesting than some Cone Mills denim I’ve owned.
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This one just makes my head hurt:
"The Sanforization process is designed to remove potential shrinkage from the fabric by moistening it with water or steam – that's a far cry from stone washing jeans. It's also functionally no different than unsanforized denim, as an educated buyer knows to soak an unsanforized pair prior to the first wear. So unsanforized and sanforized are essentially identical by the time the buyer puts on the jeans for the first time."Huh?
That was one of the comments that caused me to use "language unbefitting of a mod" when I said there was some horseshit in the comments. I fully understand that it offends your lawyerly sensibilities.
