Coronavirus (Covid-19) Discussion
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I have to admit I’m a bit of a centrist in terms of covid protocol. Doesn’t it seem like we’ve let everyone know why it’s important to get vaccinated? It seems like (at least where I live) most people that are willing to get vaxxed already have and the rest are screaming no. This might sound morbid, but what if we opened everything back up and they dealt with their actions? Maybe that view is more libertarian than centrist, like my view on motorcycle helmet laws. Either way, the fighting doesn’t seem to help anything, just more division
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I have to admit I’m a bit of a centrist in terms of covid protocol. Doesn’t it seem like we’ve let everyone know why it’s important to get vaccinated? It seems like (at least where I live) most people that are willing to get vaxxed already have and the rest are screaming no. This might sound morbid, but what if we opened everything back up and they dealt with their actions? Maybe that view is more libertarian than centrist, like my view on motorcycle helmet laws. Either way, the fighting doesn’t seem to help anything, just more division
I would totally agree if it would only affect them… but:
With the virus ciruculating among a non-vaccinated group of people there is a higher risk for mutations that might lead to a reduced immunity of the vaccines we have atm...
Viruliferous people especially with no symptoms are a risk for people that can't get vaccinated...
Being vaccinated doesn't meen you are 100% safe, especially people with other chronic diseases can still get severely ill...
Even with a mild course there is a risk for long-term health effects... -
Sometimes I wonder what these discussions would be like if it were our kids that are dying by the thousands. I feel like this crisis highlights the „value“ of the elderly and vulnerable groups within our societies. When first data showed that mostly very old people were at risk, I felt somewhat reliefed for myself and my little family. Now my selfish thoughts make me sad.
I hope this will be over soon and our kids don‘t have to grow up worrying about social distancing or losing their parents/ grandparents to a virus. Let‘s not allow this fucking thing to mutate further and further.
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It is very sad, @HighOnFire . And when you are placed in the unfortunate circumstance of having to ration healthcare (e.g., when you're overwhelmed by COVID patients and don't have enough ventilators to go around), those decisions are based on the estimated number of years left in an individual's life. That's the only equitable way to make such a difficult decision, but that does not translate into elderly lives being valueless and expendable. If we all do our part, we can minimize those difficult decisions and their impact on the ill and their families, and their caretakers and their families.
We have become so heartless and selfish, and/or perhaps simply lack the imagination to think about how our actions can create situations where grandchildren cannot say goodbye to their beloved grandparents as they suffocate to death in an ICU with–if they're "lucky"--a complete stranger holding their hand.
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I closely align with you on this @cwcaswell until I think of the points made by @Chap. I have to say that I'm not led there by any sort of altruism or thinking of the better good. Nay, my folks are older (68 and 73) and have a lot of health issues. I want increased vaccination not because I believe in the vaccine but because I'd personally scalp the person who infected my folks and killed them.
I feel passionately about change when it affects me or my community directly. I don't think that it's natural for humans to be able to care for the well-being of all communities or far-off communities. How can we if we don't know them? Part of what I like about this forum is that I'm conversing with people not in my direct community which increases my awareness of others and thereby my level of concern for communities other than my own.
Sorry to let my inner philosophy major out there…
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I saw I very succinct and well put post today:
"kids sacrificed 16+ months of their childhood, 2 school years of normalcy, mostly to protect adults from a virus that they're now choosing NOT to get vaccinated against, making kids who can't vax more vulnerable & holding everyone hostage"
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Quod. Erat. Demonstrandum.
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It would appear our highly touted "vaccines" may be no more than glorified antivirals…
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It would appear our highly touted "vaccines" may be no more than glorified antivirals…
No one has claimed the vaccine is an impenetrable force field, and not being one does not make it a "vaccine." We only THINK vaccines work that way because, once available, past-people promptly got the vaccine in sufficient numbers to stop widespread transmission. It's extremely early to start making declarations of failure ESPECIALLY when we have a large unvaccinated population. Again, vaccine efficacy is not measured by the outcomes of a single person, but on a whole population, and thus vaccination rate is a critial factor. Media outlets need clicks, and will phrase things as histrionically as possible to get them, this is known. It's up to us to use our "highly touted" frontal cortexes if we want to live in an organized society.
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I think this is a very important article to read. Society has done a great job of hiding away ugliness, from spiriting away our sewage and trash, up to making sure we never see dead bodies. This guy no longer has a job (I assume, you Brits can correct me if not):
Makes it easy to pretend these things aren't really going on, but they are. The story is an ICU doctor's take on what's going on. 18 months of fatigue in an 8 minute read.
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Welcome to the cool club
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Lucky, I wanted Pfizer, but all that was available a few months ago was Moderna for the wife and I..
With that said, I was expecting some sort of a reaction, and nada, even with the larger dosing size..
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So far, we know of 11 people (including @Alex and Kira) who were at the wedding who have tested positive, most if not all of them were double vaxxed.
As far as I am concerned, the moral of this story is that mixing in large groups is still seriously risky, unless you don't mind catching it. I'm still going to travel when I can, but I will be avoiding large gatherings for the foreseeable….
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Shiiiiit…. Sad to hear this. Hope you guys are well, but poor @Alex and Kira. Best wishes for a speedy recovery to you both.
As for the status quo, it is quiet in my area but I still mask at shopping centres and stores and will not be getting involved in large gatherings (other than at my work). This despite being double dipped.
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Yes. We have to complete what is known as a Passenger Locator Form, it asks for proof of negative test results (within the last 72 hours), vax status, address, proof that you have booked "day 2 test to release" upon return, etc etc etc. You are not allowed onto the plane without a completed form, it is also loaded electronically and ties into electronic passport control in UK. If somehow you get onto the plane without having completed the form, you will be denied electronic entry and probably have an "interesting" discussion with Border Force/Immigration officials.
All 11 people tested negative before leaving the Bahamas, some started to feel ill on the plane home, some, like Alex, managed to test negative for 3 days or so, but he went positive yesterday…
