Coronavirus (Covid-19) Discussion
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would you say the same to an individual, that for medical/ health reasons, cannot be vaccinated?
People that cannot be vaccinated are exactly the type of people that benefit from those who can be vaccinated choosing to do so. Healthy people should be UNITING together by getting vaccinated and helping those who cannot.
This statement goes back to my question, "would you say the same dividing words to people that cannot be vaccinated for medical/ health reasons" as you would to someone that DECIDES not to get vaccinated.
people that choose not to get vaccinated benefits from people that get vaccinated too, as per what you said. the dividing factor here is the vaccination itself and not the medical/ health reason as to why they can't.
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No. Anyone with half a brain isn't going to criticize someone with a medical condition preventing them from getting the vaccination. In fact, people with a medical condition don't get to choose to get it or not. A nurse or doctor is not going to administer the vaccine to someone who is immunocompromised or is at risk of having an adverse reaction to the vaxx.
Herd immunity only works if a massive majority of the herd is immune. The only way a massive majority of the herd can be immune is if all of those eligible to get the vaccine get it. This would exclude children and people with pre-existing medical conditions (i.e. the people that do not have a choice whether they get the vaccine or not). This does not exclude those that CHOOSE to not get the vaccination for their own selfish, inconsiderate reasons.
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funny how everyone who chooses not to get it is selfish, inconsiderate, egotistic or an idiot according to you lot.
If we want to encourage people to get it then people need to be engaged as equal human beings and have their concerns discussed . Not everyone is a anti-vax conspiracy theoristI find pro vax people equally if not more pushy and judgemental than the anti I have come across.
I am done with this thread
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…@spitfiredealer Amen! I'll follow suit.
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I'm not quite sure what engagement you need if it hasn't worked so far. It's not like we started out being pissed off about you not getting it — IIRC there's been plenty of thoughtful encouragement.
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A person deciding not to get a COVID vaccine, regardless of ones reason for choosing not to, puts all of those around them at risk. There is no single or combination of concerns against being vaccinated that outweigh the benefits of being vaccinated. It is ultimately a careless, selfish, and inconsiderate decision that not only impacts the individual but all of those they come into contact with, and ultimately all of society.
No one should ever be sorry for passing judgement on an individual that makes such a harmful decision.
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Well said, @BloodnThunder. I considered a few much less thoughtful ways to say it, and am glad you said it better.
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I've seen too many of my patients dying of COVID, being ventilated on ICU or suffering from long-COVID to find this whole discussion anything but tedious.
And you know what? The virus will stay, and those not willing to be vaccinated will catch it one day, sooner or later. Then just pray you will not have a severe course, or an energetic and still dedicated team of docs and nurses.
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There is a discussion, I think in many countries, wether medical staff shouldn't be forced to get vaccinated. So no choice for them then? What do you guys prefer if you go to your doctor, dentist or dental hygienist? Jabbed or anti-vax? Think of it. You get very close to them, no?
By the way the major risk getting infected is not with the patient but with us. The patients aerosol produced during a dental treatment is the most contagious fluid we have. Do we have a choice? No! I can not refuse to treat a patient with pain coming to my office for not being vaccinated.
Same at the hospital… haven't you heard about all those nurses, doctors, staff getting infected by patients....
Do you guys know why we had decades without any major outbrakes of plagues? Diphteria, pertussis, polio, mmr aso? Most of the people in the countries we live were jabbed as children and the others who refused benifited from the resulting herd immunity.
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https://enewspaper.nydailynews.com/infinity/article_share.aspx?guid=59f87423-6205-4abb-8592-0a0f0fb137d8 Thought this would be interesting.
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This is one of the first books I remember reading with my parents when I was a kid (my mom was a nurse). Maybe we could have stuck with this imagery/explanation and made the connection from the vaccine to 2nd amendment rights?
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If it’s good enough for the King —
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I have to admit I’m a bit of a centrist in terms of covid protocol. Doesn’t it seem like we’ve let everyone know why it’s important to get vaccinated? It seems like (at least where I live) most people that are willing to get vaxxed already have and the rest are screaming no. This might sound morbid, but what if we opened everything back up and they dealt with their actions? Maybe that view is more libertarian than centrist, like my view on motorcycle helmet laws. Either way, the fighting doesn’t seem to help anything, just more division
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I have to admit I’m a bit of a centrist in terms of covid protocol. Doesn’t it seem like we’ve let everyone know why it’s important to get vaccinated? It seems like (at least where I live) most people that are willing to get vaxxed already have and the rest are screaming no. This might sound morbid, but what if we opened everything back up and they dealt with their actions? Maybe that view is more libertarian than centrist, like my view on motorcycle helmet laws. Either way, the fighting doesn’t seem to help anything, just more division
I would totally agree if it would only affect them… but:
With the virus ciruculating among a non-vaccinated group of people there is a higher risk for mutations that might lead to a reduced immunity of the vaccines we have atm...
Viruliferous people especially with no symptoms are a risk for people that can't get vaccinated...
Being vaccinated doesn't meen you are 100% safe, especially people with other chronic diseases can still get severely ill...
Even with a mild course there is a risk for long-term health effects... -
Sometimes I wonder what these discussions would be like if it were our kids that are dying by the thousands. I feel like this crisis highlights the „value“ of the elderly and vulnerable groups within our societies. When first data showed that mostly very old people were at risk, I felt somewhat reliefed for myself and my little family. Now my selfish thoughts make me sad.
I hope this will be over soon and our kids don‘t have to grow up worrying about social distancing or losing their parents/ grandparents to a virus. Let‘s not allow this fucking thing to mutate further and further.
Gesendet von iPhone mit Tapatalk
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It is very sad, @HighOnFire . And when you are placed in the unfortunate circumstance of having to ration healthcare (e.g., when you're overwhelmed by COVID patients and don't have enough ventilators to go around), those decisions are based on the estimated number of years left in an individual's life. That's the only equitable way to make such a difficult decision, but that does not translate into elderly lives being valueless and expendable. If we all do our part, we can minimize those difficult decisions and their impact on the ill and their families, and their caretakers and their families.
We have become so heartless and selfish, and/or perhaps simply lack the imagination to think about how our actions can create situations where grandchildren cannot say goodbye to their beloved grandparents as they suffocate to death in an ICU with–if they're "lucky"--a complete stranger holding their hand.
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I closely align with you on this @cwcaswell until I think of the points made by @Chap. I have to say that I'm not led there by any sort of altruism or thinking of the better good. Nay, my folks are older (68 and 73) and have a lot of health issues. I want increased vaccination not because I believe in the vaccine but because I'd personally scalp the person who infected my folks and killed them.
I feel passionately about change when it affects me or my community directly. I don't think that it's natural for humans to be able to care for the well-being of all communities or far-off communities. How can we if we don't know them? Part of what I like about this forum is that I'm conversing with people not in my direct community which increases my awareness of others and thereby my level of concern for communities other than my own.
Sorry to let my inner philosophy major out there…
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I saw I very succinct and well put post today:
"kids sacrificed 16+ months of their childhood, 2 school years of normalcy, mostly to protect adults from a virus that they're now choosing NOT to get vaccinated against, making kids who can't vax more vulnerable & holding everyone hostage"
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Quod. Erat. Demonstrandum.
