Iron Heart Products - What do you think we should make?
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A lot of us live in warm/hot/hell-on-Earth climates. Sure you can say the 14oz or even 21oz can be tolerable in the heat but IMO it's not exactly comfortable and a good 10-12oz fabric feels sooooo much better in the heat. I think it would be very interesting to see H's take on a light fabric in that 10-12oz range.
I think those of us that live in hell-on-Earth climates need to accept that IH is a cold weather brand. We'll never have much use for the flannels, thermals, jackets, and super heavy denim, but that's just the way it is.
Love means sacrifice. Living in San Diego means I can get away with IH as it doesn't get too hot here or cold. I certainly don't need IH here, but I want IH here. I just think of those Pronto guys in Bangkok, so I don't complain. Haha.
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A lot of us live in warm/hot/hell-on-Earth climates. Sure you can say the 14oz or even 21oz can be tolerable in the heat but IMO it's not exactly comfortable and a good 10-12oz fabric feels sooooo much better in the heat. I think it would be very interesting to see H's take on a light fabric in that 10-12oz range.
I think those of us that live in hell-on-Earth climates need to accept that IH is a cold weather brand. We'll never have much use for the flannels, thermals, jackets, and super heavy denim, but that's just the way it is.
I don't agree that IH is just a cold weather brand considering they sell/have sold T-shirts, lightweight flannels, lightweight chambrays, short sleeve work shirts, lightweight chinos, the current 5.5oz madras shirt, etc..
One's definition of "cold weather" may be different than the next person of course, but point being that IH does make items that I can wear comfortably in the summer.
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I think I saw some shorts in a pic of H's sketchbook of upcoming products he's working on too but I could be mistaken.
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I don't agree that IH is just a cold weather brand considering they sell/have sold T-shirts, lightweight flannels, lightweight chambrays, short sleeve work shirts, lightweight chinos, the current 5.5oz madras shirt, etc..
One's definition of "cold weather" may be different than the next person of course, but point being that IH does make items that I can wear comfortably in the summer.
The volume of cold weather gear IH produces is vastly greater than the volume of summer gear because its target audience needs it and because the Japanese climate supports it. Just look at the size of the average A/W collection compared to the average S/S collection. Using shorts as an example, the forthcoming serge shorts will be the second time IH has produced such a thing as far as I’m aware. Twice in as long as IHUK had existed. Consider the number of ultra heavy flannels released each year compared to the number of 5.5oz shirts. Some years they don’t make short-sleeved gear.
It’s been said many times before. Iron Heart are a Japanese biker brand. They design and make clothes aimed at Japanese bikers. Japan has a relatively temperate climate, with four distinct seasons, including summer. Bike riders need layers, almost all year round. Some people need shorts and lighter shirts (when they aren’t riding) in the summer. But Japan does not have anything like Arizona, Texas, Florida or Alabama.
I think @Heavygenes hits the nail on the head. No one needs IH in San Diego, but he can can choose to rock it there. The majority of IH gear is pointless in Phoenix, Arizona, but you’ll always have the S/S collection and can choose to wear the heavier stuff too. Just not the IHJ-75 [emoji1]
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Plenty of loyal buyers in places like Indonesia that are beyond warm year round, and they often seem to like the heavy stuff. At least as far as jeans go, I don't think people necessarily let fabric weight be governed strictly by climate. There are other factors in play, such as how the fabric feels, how durable a buyer thinks it will be, how it drapes, how novel the fabric weight is, how it ages, etc. The thought of swamp nuts from 25oz jeans in hot and humid climates makes me shudder, but obviously this is not a universal opinion.
As for shorts, I'm all for ending that madness and letting people chicken-leg pants as used to be the norm with cargo and painter pants. I would have been in the market for the serge cargo shorts had they been pants. It gives buyers more options (how long do you prefer your shorts to be, or would you rather have pants?), and to address @JDelage point, the fabric cost isn't too much and the legs need not be discarded, as they can be used for other purposes. But I do think that waste is an important issue and that's a good point.
One common characteristic of a lot of the things IH makes isn't just that they are warm, but that they are adaptable. Zip hoodies and button-down flannels (particularly with snaps), for example, are excellent layering pieces, as they are wind resistant but breathable, and you can adjust how open or closed they are to changes in climate. So, if you live in a place with wide temperature swings, a thermal Henley under a UHF under a hoodie gives you a ton of latitude to adjust to swings of temperature through the day. Or if you ride a bike, and while in motion are chilly, but at rest are a bit warmer, this adaptability is key.
I agree that Iron Heart is more of a Japanese than a cold weather brand, but the main reason I have so many heavy shirts from them is that I lived in Minnesota and wanted to stay warm without wearing heavy coats all the time (and closely following that is Haraki's nigh-impeccable taste). But I think that the heavy weight may have as much to do with the motorcycle piece as it does keeping warm, and perhaps more to do with durability than either. But I'm not in Haraki's head, that's just my take. The brand is whatever it is to whomever is buying it, and there are as many reasons to love the brand as there are buyers.
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Back when I worked a lot of landscaping in the summer months I often worked with guys from in and around theamazon. They had spent most of their lives in stifling climate. . There were a large amount of them who didn’t seem to sweat the way I did. I mean I would be soaked through my jeans, and t-shirt and they werent sweating AT ALL. I wonder if that is the case with some of our Indonesian friends.
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My Dad lives in Thailand with his wife and no matter how hot it is there she never seems to break a sweat. Me and him have it pouring off us and not a bead on her. Same with all the construction workers over there, they constantly covered up from the sun but never look hot.
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I don't disagree with any of the points being made but I do feel that the idea that the Japanese audience is IH's target market possibly carries less weight now considering the trend in the Japanese market going towards street and fast fashion and the effect it's having on Japanese brands like Flat Head and Iron Heart for that matter. I believe Giles has stated that it's the international market that is carrying Iron Heart as the Japanese sales have slowed drastically. I obviously can't speak for H and I never would so for all I know he could still be focusing on the Japanese market as his target audience, but as a loyal customer who loves the brand and only wants to see it succeed I'm just playing devils advocate here and saying maybe "we" (IH) pose the question….is it the right idea or in the best interest of the brands long term success to focus on the Japanese market right now? I'm in no way saying that IH needs to completely change what's it doing or anything....at all...just suggesting the idea that maybe the Japanese audience isn't or shouldn't be the target audience considering the shift in that market.
I was just simply suggesting that personally I would love to see a summerweight 10-12oz jean from them...that's all. It might sell like shit if it happened...who knows...but I don't think it's that crazy of an idea and all of these arguments against it could have easily been arguments against a 14oz jean before that was released but it appears that it's selling fairly well.
Just a selfish suggestion of what I would like to see IH make...that's what this thread is for after all....I want some lightweight IH jeans dammit!
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If you haven't tried the 14oz it's plenty light and breathable imo for any climate.
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If you haven't tried the 14oz it's plenty light and breathable imo for any climate.
I have….love it...both versions 1 and 2. Was wearing them the other day (v.2) when it was in the 90's here and was outside doing some things which was when I was thinking to myself that I should have worn my 10oz RgT's today because the 14oz IH's were getting a bit too warm. Then that's when I thought man...some 10-12oz IH's would be great.
The 14oz is tolerable in the Phx summers but I wouldn't exactly say it's comfortable. My 10oz RgT's are much more comfortable in the 90F and up range IMO.
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I can’t wear anything under 14oz. My experience with lightweight denim is that the fabric wears out faster in the stress points. I’m not saying lightweight IH denim is a bad idea I just know I wouldn’t wear them. Besides, when it’s hotter than sh*t outside I’m wearing shorts damnit [emoji1]
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I wore 21oz in Arizona 110 degree weather. I survived.
We'll see how 25oz fares. So far our high is 99. ???
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I hate it when I’m alone at a stoplight that has two lanes going in the same direction, then another car arrives next to me and then tries to go in front of me when the light turns green and then zippers to one lane. Boils my blood.
edit thought this was random rants for a second. Would have brought cheese if I knew there was gonna be this much wine. [emoji12]
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@manufc10 thing is, the international market is buying the heavy, biker stuff that H makes for Japanese bikers. There are huge sections of the international market with climates similar to Japan and as stated, loads of other places with sub-tropical and tropical climates where the heavy stuff sells. He doesn’t need to dilute his vision or his brand to chase sales.
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@manufc10 thing is, the international market is buying the heavy, biker stuff that H makes for Japanese bikers. There are huge sections of the international market with climates similar to Japan and as stated, loads of other places with sub-tropical and tropical climates where the heavy stuff sells. He doesn’t need to dilute his vision or his brand to chase sales.
I'm not disagreeing that the international market is buying the heavy biker gear, those in hotter climates included. I was just addressing the statement you made previously that the Japanese market is the target market and his focus needs to be there by pointing out that the target market doesn't appear to be buying nearly as much as they once were so putting the focus there seems less relevant today than it once was.
I don't feel in any way that making a lightweight denim would be diluting his vision to chase sales. I would never suggest he do that as I previously stated. Again, they might actually sell like shit so that would be quite the opposite of me suggesting he should chase sales.
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I can’t wear anything under 14oz. My experience with lightweight denim is that the fabric wears out faster in the stress points. I’m not saying lightweight IH denim is a bad idea I just know I wouldn’t wear them. Besides, when it’s hotter than sh*t outside I’m wearing shorts damnit [emoji1]
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My experience has actually been the opposite. My heaviest denims have actually gotten holes in them quicker than any other denims and I'm sure it's because of the amount of friction created with the heavier fabrics rubbing together is greater than it would be with a lightweight fabric. That's my thinking anyways.
I don't wear shorts hardly at all anymore… which is just as good for everyone else's sake cause nobody want's to see my white ass legs in public.
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I'm not disagreeing that the international market is buying the heavy biker gear, those in hotter climates included. I was just addressing the statement you made previously that the Japanese market is the target market and his focus needs to be there by pointing out that the target market doesn't appear to be buying nearly as much as they once were so putting the focus there seems less relevant today than it once was.
I don't feel in any way that making a lightweight denim would be diluting his vision to chase sales. I would never suggest he do that as I previously stated. Again, they might actually sell like shit so that would be quite the opposite of me suggesting he should chase sales.
IH making 10oz denim jeans doesn’t make any sense for the brand. It just doesn’t rhyme with the philosophy. The locus of the brand has always been heavyweight jeans, specifically the 21oz denim. Everything else circles that.
I’m afraid I wasn’t clear enough in my earlier post. I didn’t mean to imply that H targets the Japanese market. The point was that he makes clothes for Japanese bikers. They are the users he envisions when designing. He does that because he is one. His clothes are a product of his interests and his environment. If you watch Weaving Shibusa he talks about only making gear he would want to wear. Why would he design and make clothes he doesn’t want to, when people all over the world are already buying what he wants to make?
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And within reason, and to the extent that Alex and I can persuade H, we do make specific garments, fits and sizes for the western market. Often, after a year or two Haraki will ask us if we mind if he adopts an idea we have come up with, for the Japanese market, witness the indigo/indigo duck and denim, the 14, 18 and 25oz denims, the 555 and the 666 cut. But, I 100% promise you, I will not be asking him to do a denim lighter than 14oz, I'm still amazed I got away with the 14oz….
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For me personally Iron Heart is all about heavy denim, the heavier the better. And yes, I do wear XHS and UHR during summer (something I couldn't even imagine before discovering the brand). Although experiencing the first iteration of the 14 oz and thinking it's quite nice I am still unsure about IH going below 18 oz denim. I would rather see a new 20, 22, 23 or even 24 oz / loomstate denim as the heavy range represents the spirit of the brand IMHO.
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I am curious to try the 14oz but for me IH is all about the heavy stuff. They do it better than anyone else.
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