Random questions to which you seek an answer
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Moving this from Triple Works Pipeline…
First off, wow.
Some real gem posts in there today.Can't say I was expecting so many childish remarks from you guys.
I can't think of anyone more passionate about Iron Heart than Mike. Not one person comes to mind.
Don't ask me how but for someone who has never actually manufactured or been to any mills he knows a ridiculous amount of info about the techniques/fabrics all these companies use.
Do you think he's giving criticism just to be a dick?
No, he fucking loves IH(especially the tees) and wants everything about the products to be perfect. He also wants to be able to buy a size large and it fit similar to all the other IH tees he has.I know IH is not a tee shirt company.
We sell 1,000's of T shirts a year. We are a Japanese company, any product that we make (unless I specifically commission it) has to span the East/West sizing Divide. If they don't fit you, then cool, go buy something else. And I am not going to specifically commission a special size run because a) The margins are tiny on Tee's, so it just isn't worth it, and b) the other half of my customer base would start bitching.
Giles, you definitely took this quote the wrong way. I didn't read that as an insult at all. Mike was basically saying that he knows IH's focus is not on T-Shirts. That's it. Unless the tagline under the IH logo says "6.5oz Heavy Tees," then I apologize.
But if you are consistently rude, derogatory and finish every other post with a snide "Oh. I forgot, Iron Heart is not a T-shirt company", then any "suggestions" or "advice" you give will be ignored.
If you behaved like that at my house, you would not be invited back. This forum is no different.
You misquoted him there and definitely took it out of context.
Here's the actual quote,
@MikeC:The loopwheeled fabrics don't shrink, at all, horizontally, but they def shrink an inch or so vertically with several wears and washes. Also, shoulders need to be slimmed a little, like Seul said. I don't see why it's such a problem to make the loopwheeled shirts in the same cut as the OG IH tees. Please don't take this personal, it's just some creative criticism. I know IH is not a tee shirt company.
The forum is actually a lot different. If we were all sitting at your house we would be having a civilized discussion about why there are sizing issues within all brands. Instead, anytime the subject comes up it gets changed to, "guys stop being OCD, just buy them or don't. Giles, you're amazing, thank you so much for this community." Yes, this is great community full of all types of people from all around the world. It's a very unique amazing place. It's also a place for us to voice our opinions whether you like them or not(unless the Mods don't like them of course).
I understand small sizing differences between runs but some things are crazy off, like 1-2 sizes off.
Does it just come down to human error?
Did you switch factories?
If you use the same pattern with the same material shouldn't it be relatively close?This quote is awesome btw.
@MikeC:Actually, once a pattern is made, its made. Giles has mentioned on several occasions that its too expensive to go back and change ANYTHING on an existing pattern. If all the denim was one washed Unsanforized, then I'd get a 0.5" discrepancy, here and there, but not a full 2 inches in the waistband (like the 666S). I even mentioned that the Vulcan sizing looks like the 634S cut is evolving, since its noticeably slimmer, but I was told that Haraki would never change that cut (this is documented in the 634SV thread).
Again, this is all out of love for the brand. So no reason to get upset. We all want Iron Heart to be perfect.
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Eloquently put, I couldn't have said it better myself. Urb you are like the "Faulkner" of the social media world.
"Obstacles are stepping-stones That guide us to our goals"
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I was actually thinking about this, and was gonna PM Giles saying I think he mistook what Hicks/ MikeC was saying… I also don't have the feeling at all that Hicks feels or acts entitled, or is deliberately being an asshole - I think it comes very natural to him...
I understand what he's saying, and partially agree, but I just roll with the inconsistencies I guess... I just go by size charts and if something changes during a second batch, hell that might be good for a group of people who couldn't pull off that piece before...It's just like beer y'know... There are inevitable changes... No matter how much you yell at the brewer that the 2001 version was best...
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Thanks for that Shane! I was at work trying to think of how to phrase a similar response. After this weekend I've been reading a bunch of reviews on phish.net, and let me tell you, phish fans are much more critical of the band than we are of Iron Heart. We love Phish at Dick's, and We love Iron Heart!!
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^i like this guy
"Obstacles are stepping-stones That guide us to our goals"
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^i like these guys
"Obstacles are stepping-stones That guide us to our goals"
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MikeC did not seem to be the one coming across as the asshole.
Yeah sorry about that guys, having a serious case of the Wednesdays…
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amen Shane… thanks for open up the eyes of some guys !
(that is whoever feels affected with the above !) ...some are way too fucking sensible when somebody has to say something against (=pos. or neg.critic) a fabric, cut or against whatever the feck comes from Japan. ass kissing isn't the thing to do, it's all about kicking it and trying to support the company we all love so god damn much!...
if you think you have to raise your voice, fecking do so
...not go overboard though, kids might be reading... -
I'm with Giles here.
There is a way expressing criticism, and saying[…] the inconsistentcies in sizing are ridiculous. Every tee has a different length. Whenever sizing seems fucked up, you roll with it.
is not the way.
Try to read that out loud to someone who offers you a well-made product he cares deeply about. See if he want's to do business with you after that. -
i think Giles is accustomed to much harder shit than this…besides that, we all know mikec and that he's a great lad afterall. so no need to take this too serious...btw. kissing ass is not the way to go
Raf, I would agree to an extent, but when it comes time and time again even best of friends will only tolerate so much BS. It all comes down to the golden rule, treat others as you want to be treated. Assert your self in a manner that is becoming. There have been times of disrespect that have made me wince…
Manners is not kissing ass. It's expected and respected.
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I think criticism is the most valid form of support, sure we want to hear it said sweetly, but hate trumps "like" as it demonstrates the care to make the brand or product stronger, this is done uniquely by taking the chance/risk/emotion to voice a felt opinion sincerely - deal with it. If the brand listens to where it fell down, not how it was said, then in the eyes of that "hater" the brand it will surely profit. If the brand doesn't listen they loose a valuable ally, an ally who cared. A "like" in essence doesn't enable the creator or brand to learn, nor does tone, hate does, and as Raffa pointed out simple ass kissing at worst. But sure, if you can, be nice but get to the point.
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All I'm saying is that the tone of a post often drowns out the impact of it message…
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^This.
Right message in the wrong way
Wrong message in the right way
Wrong message in the wrong way
Right message in the right wayNo one's trying to say that the message is wrong, rather it's how it's been said.
Mike's passion and level of detail is second to none, even the criticism is valid, it's the way it's delivered.
There's no need to say "IH is not a t-shirt company", IH always delivers the best product possible, be silver, leather, cotton, shirt, jacket, boots. There's no buts, and no need or reason to make a statement before the criticism.
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The wikipedia entry for criticism has a good section: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism#Quality
I'm not really focussing on the "verbal abuse" aspect of my posted quote, nor am I kissing anyone's arse, but on the tone and quality of certain statements. And I'm sure both "lovers" and "haters" of a brand can formulate criticism that is useful, as can both be numb-nuts when doing the opposite. -
Hey snowy, Giles has told me (its documented) on several occasions, when I've criticized the tees, that "we're not a tee shirt company." That's the only reason I prefaced it with that line. You guys need to read the history before you joined this forum because a lot of you are uninformed on what has happened over the last couple years. If I didn't preface it with that, I would have got the "we're not a tee shirt company" line.
