Time For a New Jeans Cut….
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And mpukas, you sure your talking about IH634's? I wear 9oz Tandy Belts and not only do the belt loops accommodate them but my badge and keys as well in my 634s-b's. And for my xhs and b0uhr's for that matter. I too wear 1.75" wide belts. Pics when i get home.
The last time I checked, and I've been wearing these for nearly 20 months for the DWC, the patch says 634-XHS 25oz.
The belt loops are too short to be able to put the doubled end of the belt + buckle hardware through, so the belt buckle is off center. The top of watch pocket is at the bottom edge of the belt, so it's inaccessible, therefore useless. The front pocket openings are too high and tight, and it's difficult to get my hand into.
Granted, I've always felt these are a size too small. I was a bit leaning from a highly restricted diet experiment when I got these. Now I'm over that nonsense, and back to my usual bulk. They measured a size smaller than tagged size. I'm ready to move on from these…
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I know that Iron Heart will not be seeking inspiration from LVC or any other brand for the new cut. It's an original based on the materials, skills and measurements required from Iron Heart, and by Iron Heart
My intention of posting the LVC's wasn't for IH's inspiration. Wait a minute.. maybe it was… but not necessarily... it's just an example for discussion. Personally, I could care less about historically accurate repro anything. But if anyone is making 5-pocket, button fly denim pants, they are in fact making some version of some version Levi's 501, then it could be argued that at some level they are in the business of reproducing jeans.
Jeans are the original work wear clothing, intentionally functional. If the basics of belt loops and pockets can't be produced to be functional for today's uses, in favor of some tunnel-vision aesthetic, then it's a failed effort on some level, regardless of how sic the fades may be.
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great looking denim.
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Who wears LVC? No one. Really.I agree with you sentiment. But I don't know what the reality is. I'm willing to guess that there are many more people in the world that wear LVC, than even know what Iron Heart, or any other Japanese brand for that matter, is. Sales figures would tell the story.
And I agree with the other comments - $285 is too much for me to pay for a pair of Levi's made with Cone denim when there are so many other choices out there.
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I know that Iron Heart will not be seeking inspiration from LVC or any other brand for the new cut. It's an original based on the materials, skills and measurements required from Iron Heart, and by Iron Heart
My intention of posting the LVC's wasn't for IH's inspiration. Wait a minute.. maybe it was… but not necessarily... it's just an example for discussion. Personally, I could care less about historically accurate repro anything. But if anyone is making 5-pocket, button fly denim pants, they are in fact making some version of some version Levi's 501, then it could be argued that at some level they are in the business of reproducing jeans.
Jeans are the original work wear clothing, intentionally functional. If the basics of belt loops and pockets can't be produced to be functional for today's uses, in favor of some tunnel-vision aesthetic, then it's a failed effort on some level, regardless of how sic the fades may be.
While there may be elements of tunnel vision in the design of IH clothes in general, and the 634 in particular (most designers have some kind of tunnel vision, as it's necessary to the process), it's entirely inaccurate to suggest that the design of the 634 is one that ignores practical usage in favour of aesthetics, and plain wrong to suggest that this aesthetic is concerned with "sick fades". That last is about the preference of the customer not the designer. If "sick fades" is a buyers number one goal then there are other brands that quite deliberately build these functions into their products. In fact Haraki-san's designs are often about quite the opposite. Many IH design features are put in with a focus on practical issues for bikers in mind, for example. I believe I'm correct in saying that a jean made of selvedge fabric was, at least initially, unimportant to him. Fades are seen more as a by-product of using the jeans than a goal in and of themselves.
There's quite a big difference, in terms of design, between making a version (put more correctly an iteration) of a jean, and re-producing a jean. No design process occurs in a vacuum. There are always elements of time, history, place, purpose and individual creativity involved. This is from the IH 634 cut description:
_"THE 634 FAMILY
Any jean with 634 in the model number. This is where it all started for Iron Heart and we consider the 634 to be our "signature" cut. Loosely based on a 1966 Levi’s 501, it is a straight cut jean with a medium rise and slight taper from the knee to the hem"._
So the 634, which is the IH signature cut and their most sold jean, is a loose iteration of the '66 501. They explicitly share some DNA with that particular Levi's model and the whole 5 pocket jean concept which was started way back when, and which Levi's were a big part of. But they also are a product of Japan and the Japanese way of doing things. They are a product of the present and not the past (changes and developments in manufacturing techniques for example). They have biker DNA because of the designers stated goal to produce clothing for bikers, they have Haraki-san DNA, culled from years of working with jeans for Edwin and through his own design processes, wishes and desires. The 666 and the BB cuts are further iterations of the 634, so they have that 501 DNA, but also loads of Iron Heart specific DNA. To suggest that IH jeans reproduce of "Levi's" is to misunderstand the design process and the factors that affect design, as well as the historical development of jeans and the both the Levi's brand and other brands.
Repro/vintage brands (of which IH are not one), try to get even closer to aspects of the original DNA, but they are also affected by time and place, creativity, individual vision, etc. LVC's business model is based on pulling designs from the Levi's archive and making new iterations of them with some specific marketing in the mix. They have the name, and access to archives and therefore, arguably a little more of that Levi's DNA. But that certainly does not mean they make better jeans, or are a firm to be inspired by, copy, or work from. They are not the original Levi's company and if they made exact replica's of the jeans of old, they probably wouldn't sell very many. They update the cuts for a modern market and use the brand name and the word "vintage" as a marketing strategy so that customers with feel they are buying something more "authentic". If that's what floats your boat then fine, but why on earth would IH or any other company, seek inspiration from a brand that is essentially doing work that is just as removed from the "original" Levi's as IH, The Flat Head, Mr. Freedom, or even Nudie for that matter. What makes IH different from these companies is precisely what makes Iron Heart, well.. Iron Heart. Some like those differences, others don't.
The new cut will have this old Levi's, five pocket DNA in it. All jeans do. It will have Haraki-san's DNA, and the 634 DNA in it as it is expressly based on the 634 cut. @Giles and @Megatron1505 will have left there mark on it also. But saying all jeans companies are reproducing Levi's jeans and therefore IH have something to learn from LVC, is like saying all car companies are making Fords, and Ferrari have something to learn from how Ford make a replica Mustang.
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I didn't think it was necessary to say that this is an Iron Heart mid cut jean, and will not be taking inspiration from other brands cuts of jeans because it doesn't need to. However, that is exactly what I'm saying….
I like @neph93 's more in depth answer too though
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I like @neph93 's more in depth answer too though
What can I tell you? Slow day in Norwegian education. Students are so bright they're teaching themselves…
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How do I get some of these IH!? Lol
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Giles, will these have the same leg opening at say 34 as 37 length? So we won't lose the taper when we hem them?
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That's it. Oh right ok
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I thought on some cuts you were doing this. So it goes straight down from say 34-37. So for example a 8" hem at 37 is still a 8" hem at 34 as opposed to becoming wider and losing the taper.
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Right gotcha
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…So how do you vary the taper and retain the selvedge side seam.....
@Giles - I would assume the same way you vary the taper for the rest of the leg and keep the straight slevedge outside seam - by varying the cut/taper on the inside seam. The taper is different from crotch to knee (13" +/-) than from knee to hem, so why not again different (i.e. straight) from 33" +/- to hem? Just curious… Thanks. mpp
