All Things Mac/ Apple
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Meh, they've already got my prints
Please don't see that as a personal insult, but the problem nowadays is that western society is so spoilt by wealth that almost nobody cares any more about the highest good in a democracy => privacy. I myself give up privacy for comfort in some cases (using GMail, Dropbox, etc.), but I try to minimize my exposure to governmental monitoring.
Sorry if I sound like a smartass, I just try my best to convince people to worship more their basic rights.
I myself never want the 1984-predictions to come true. -
It is optional and biometric data is stored on the SoC. I think it's a great idea, I always worry about shoulder surfers seeing a PIN.
I hope none of you use the same PIN on your phone as an ATM.
I also hope this can be used as a second factor of authentication.
If Google is smart, they will add an iris scanner to Glass.
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I am super paranoid about the government and privacy. I am not kidding or trivializing things when I say they have my prints.
The prints are kept on the A7 and if privacy is a concern, I'd be more worried about Google than this. YMMV.
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I should have mentioned that I'm not talking about Apple devices, but about gadgets in general. Of course one can throw Google in the same pot.
I made so many terrible experiences with friends and colleagues at Uni who study IT(!) with me, and when we talk about that stuff I usually get a reply a la "Well, I don't have anything to hide" or "Well I'm just a regular person, why would they care about me?" Maybe for an average person this whole talking about privacy and monitoring might be too abstract, but for people who study IT this is VERY frightening imho. I get furious when people reply something like that. Don't people use their brains any more?The worst part: Politicians in Austria and Germany usually pretend that there is no problem regarding the NSA-scandal. Usually official statements are something like "The NSA confirmed that they will only search/access monitored data when there is a court order". WTF, they can't be serious.
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We are on the same page, believe me…
The whole "I don't have anything to hide" and "if you don't have anything to hide, why are you worried about it" mentality is despicable and the antithesis of democracy. It makes me nuts that we in America so complacently trade freedom for convenience and are too complacent to challenge the continuous narrowing of our liberties. We have betrayed the principles on which our nation was founded. We let the fear of terror and just plain laziness push us towards an autocratic police state.
Ben Franklin said it best:
"Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
All that said, Apple is a lesser evil in terms of privacy than is google just based on the less cloud-y nature of it. All phones leak data, some deliberately, but by putting all of it in google's cloud I am compromising more of my privacy than I am with apple. Just my opinion.
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^Shoque, you've got to come back out the other side mate. Having done Information Security (not just "IT") for global telcos and setup some of the core Lawful Interception (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lawful_interception) networks, it's not a fun place/view of the world. There is enlightenment post Information Security, life becomes an accepted risk management.
There's no way Apple could do something other then they've said on this, it would cost them the company's reputation massively. That's not misplaced/guided trust, that's logical common sense, that will be mathematically proven rather soon.
Life's too short to worry about the boogy man. Assume everything you say/do is already being recorded/archived and tracked, and get on with living. There's nothing you can do about it and you can't opt out, it's the price of entry for a global economy, stability, and information network.
On the Touch ID specifically, I'm with MCL, I'm more concerned about shoulder surfing and theft of my device. The Touch ID only works with living cells, meaning that a finger print can't be cloned, nor a finger cut off. That makes my device only useable be me. I protect my data and secure it as best as possible, that's the flip side of privacy; data protection. /ends hijack
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When "measuring" Apple against Google, you are totally right. Google is the privacy-holocaust: Search history, mails, drive, contacts, calendar, talk/hangout.
The more I think about it the more desperate and depressed I get.
The Ben Franklin quote really sums up what has been going on in the USA, but also in Europe, in the past few decades.
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RMS, I worry, will ultimately proven right on apple, google, Microsoft, and free software.
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^your geek cred has just gone up @ least 2 notches with that call :). (And I agree). (and if you get time please feel free to PM me some of your backstory)
Theo de Raadt is the other one who comes out shining.
FBI inserted back doors into IPSEC; http://marc.info/?l=openbsd-tech&m=129236621626462[For internet production if it matters it's either OpenBSD or Solaris/SmartOS, never ever been anything else]
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^ true, I didn't expect someone to mention Stallman now in that discussion.
Snowy: I always thought there were just rumors that the IPSec protocol theoretically was compromised? I would have never expected Open Source network stack implementations to be compromised. Is there some more of de Raadt on mailing lists regarding that topic? Feel free to mail me some background-info.
What about OpenVPN, that's what I mainly use now to retain anonymity? At least regarding to Snowden, AES is only able to be cracked via bruteforcing, right?
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Yeah, Theo is a hero of freedom in the digital age, no question. I used to run an OpenBSD box primarily as a firewall on an old SPARCstation. pf is ridiculously awesome.
EDIT: Bruce Schneier is another hero of mine…
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^It doesn't work like that, and even if through some whacky reason it does, I really don't care if my fingerprint is on file. It's not like it's usable for anything or impacts my daily life in any way.
But it does impact your civil liberties actually, on precedent… The more of your privacy you shrug your shoulders to regardless of your daily activities the harder it will become to defend your privacy. If its okay for them to swipe finger prints from an app or whatever this is, then is it okay for them to come in your house and install cameras or use your camera of your phone or Bluetooth to monitor your daily activities? Its about principle and making sure our most important liberties stay intact, for without them we are defenseless.
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There could be other implications. If they ever figure out a way to use a lifted fingerprint pattern on the device, your ability to "plead the fifth" could be circumvented. Today the fifth amendment offers protection, you don't have to give your unlock code and theoretically here in the states they can't torture it out of you.
Either way, it is a good convenience feature I will be using. I don't think it compromises my civil liberties in this instance.
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I get that this is off-topic, but while we're on the off-topic topic (:D) of security and privacy and the cloud, a sensationalist, but interesting article (the logic here would have to apply to iCloud backups as well):
http://blogs.computerworld.com/android/22806/google-knows-nearly-every-wi-fi-password-world
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I think we're probably in the tail-end of off topic from Apple, so will leave it all in here, Unless any of you wants to spin into more regular privacy discussions. I'm not interested in chatting about it regularly; too much like my day job.
shoque, IPSEC backdoor was never confirmed/denied, The Snowden Stuff 2 weeks ago pretty much validated it as existing, at least at a point in time.
Bruce Schneier of course is one of the go-to gun, especially on crypto. Below is written by him, and he still says Trust In Math. OpenVPN/AES maybe sound cryptographically, but if the application is leaking keys over the wire…
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/sep/05/nsa-how-to-remain-secure-surveillance
@tatman, I get the argument, but as a realist, know that is the world we live in. That game is over time to look and move forwards and evolve to the current games.
@MCL, I've been strong-armed by the police to give over my pin number on my iPhone before. Totally not legal, and I fought them on the legality a few times, but the alternative was lawyers and extended time in the dock, failure to cooperate etc etc, all whilst there was nothing to hide. So whilst in theory they can't torture it out of you, they will do everything to get it. (Australian law has a similar clause to the 5th).
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^ Is a great answer on the development of the Secure Enclave and why it's technically sound (said it wouldn't be long before this turned up). [Click close and read first answer - fecking pop ups!]
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I saw that on DF; interesting
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Yeah he certainly has his moments. He's either dead on or way off for me it seems. Usually the former.
I am totally bored by all the recent Nintendo fixation. I couldn't care much less about the topic.
