Iron Heart in the Press or on other Sites
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Hmm. Not my opinion, sorry. I prefer to own the things I love instead of looking for them for years and then pay a price, that comes close to the retail value. Of course, it feels good to own limited stuff, but when a new shirt arrives with 4-5 pieces in my size and they're gone after 15 minutes, how big is the chance to get those some day? Especially when you don't have the funds to buy 3 shirts that are appealing and show up within few days.
Just like the bottoms, they are extant and nobody gets less pleasure in owning or wearing them because of that. -
I completely understand your perspective, Max. However, I would like to respectfully offer a counterpoint. I think part of the addiction is the thrill of the chase. The knowledge/internal conflict that you may only get 1/3 of the shirts you want, because of funds, makes the one shirt you obtain all the more valuable. It definitely sucks when you miss out on a shirt you were planning on purchasing, and I may just be saying this because I've been on a lucky IH streak, lately; but the limited nature – and the chance of missing something -- adds to the appeal, for me.
I also may have a different perspective because I really like most of what IH produces. As I mentioned, above, I wish to claim a 22 and a 55, someday; but I haven't posted a "want" thread for them because there are so many other shirts/bottoms/jackets/Ts/hardware, etc., that I want, too. I just focus on what's available because even that list is substantially more than I can afford. Now that doesn't mean I will always feel this way. I'll probably end up posting that "want" thread tomorrow, right? Haha. But we all go about things differently.
Of course, I am relatively new to IH, so I may have completely different priorities than a hardened veteran, such as yourself. Meaning: maybe I haven't been soured by missing so many items I want, over the years. I'm not suggesting that you are -- although, it kind of sounds like it, doesn't it? Sorry -- but it's possible I am just ignorant to the realities of the veteran IH faithful. As tatmantall wisely posted, earlier, "Ignorance is bliss" -- this may be especially suitable when it comes to scoring IH.
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I totally get your point and share it partly. It feels good when you score the shirt you've been looking for a long time, of course. Or when I got my SH 72 the minute they popped up and few hours later I get PM asking me if I want to resell it.
But, if you ask for my feelings as "IH-Veteran" - this forum and the fans of the brand grow and grow and so the chance to grab items is getting lower and lower. Some years ago, you had at least a few days to decide on a new item before it was gone. And yes, I'm kinda bummed to find out that some items are extinct before they even appear on the webstore. Which leads me back to the marketing part - new customers are fantastic, as long as the old ones still get a chance to grab new gear. I'm radically selfish on this part, of course.
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All great points. Thank you for your insight. And no, you're not selfish. I'm sure it has to be incredibly frustrating, as a longtime customer, to see your favorite brand (or at least one of) get so popular. People like myself swoop in and grab things without the appreciation of investing in the brand for years. On one hand, I'm sure you're happy to see the brand succeed. On the other, you still want it to remain the same.
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Nothing more to add
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Anyone get any ideas of how we could improve?
Pre-ordering is not a solution as people change their mind or size.
Completing a form giving an indication of what people want in advance is useless, because everyone completes the form "just in case" and we get left with loads of stuff that is hard to get rid of.And Max, I take a load more of each item now (if available) than I did in the past. I probably brought over no more than 12-15 IHSH-20's. With the IHSH-72, I probably got in about 80 (and I restocked at least twice when I realised I had under estimated demand). Plus there are more retailers now who take the stuff as well.
Here's another issue. We all hated it when shirts would pop up from another brand made in the same fabric as an Iron Heart shirt. So now, in the main, we design all our own fabric. We have to estimate total demand and then get the fabric woven, if we run out, we are really stuffed as we can't just pop down to the mill and buy another roll.
I'm not defending my position or my approach, I spend long sleepless nights trying to solve this dilemma.
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Yeah, I figured that the switch to completely IH-made fabric has to do with it. I have no real solution. Just a thought - I wouldn't mind less new products per year but those who make it coming in larger numbers and being available for maybe even 2-4 seasons.
Like the old hickory or chambray shirts. They were restocked from time to time and so much better available as the one-off runs of the flannels. Sh33 is nother good example.And, not knowing the sales, my observation is that flannels are highly anticipated and sell like crazy.
So why not make 3 times as much (over a longer period of time, if the mills are too small) and sell them before doing new stuff? That matches the brand philosophy better - no fashion, classic designs that outlast seasonal trends. But I'm not working in fashion or retail, so I'm no expert.It seems like a dilemma indeed: the old folks who own much lust for new gear. The new dudes buy that too, but would also go for classics. But my feeling is, that as the crowd gets bigger and bigger, the available stuff, whatever it is, sells much faster.
(Another thought: Does anybody enjoy it less, just because many others wear one? I don't think so. You will most likely never meet somebody on the street wearing it too, so I don't care if 1000 people over the world own one
I wear it for the product and look, not for the exclusivity) -
Yes, exactly. And I'd love it if the same would apply on the SH 31, 20, 38, 72, 70 etc. Speaking a transfer of the calculation of quantities and supply for the flannels.
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I believe that every brand which doesn't
develop itself will not survive.Cause of the growing denim market every brand has to try to open for new target audiences what means to keep the demand alive.
Maybe that's the reason why IH creates new styles and fabrics every year. The balancing act is to keep the seniors interested (no one will buy the same stuff twice!), to thrill the rookies and to keep the quality on that high level!
IMHO that is no problem ATM though IH is not an insiders' tip anymore.
And like G said small batches minimize the financial risks (but the profits too) and keep the market demand.
Just my 2cents!
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@Max:
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I ve most likely never meet somebody on the street (and i live in a big city) wearing it too, so I don't care if 1000 people over the world own one I wear it for the product and look, not for the exclusivity)This!
This has nothing to do with the biz side of it though…
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No, but with those that said that they prefer the low stocks as they love to own exclusive items.
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Fascinating exchange. I've enjoyed hearing both sides. Being new I'll keep my input to myself. I preordered the jeans, but didn't start ordering until really digging into the forums. It has to drive a lot of business.
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I'm sure that Iron Heart is growing but is it really that popular? I'm not going to comment on supply/demand stuff, I'm just wondering if you dudes actually see anyone that you couldn't recognize from the forums wearing it on the street.
Also, I'm not sure if there are so many newbies. There are a lot of old posters that don't come around anymore and it's the nature of such an accessible forum to fill that void; I don't think it indicates any huge shift from old to newcomers. Anyway, just wanted to get into the convo
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Well, it's 2700+ members round here now. Remember the 1000 member draw? And when you look at other forums like Sufu, IH is among the most popular brands and for many the first real japanese jeans. Same goes for Samurai. But I have only met one guy with IH on the street so far.
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@Max:
But I have only met one guy with IH on the street so far.
Zero for me. IH and other quality products are a personal philosophy. To everyone else they're "just" a pair of blue jeans.
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Anyone get any ideas of how we could improve?
Pre-ordering is not a solution as people change their mind or size.
Completing a form giving an indication of what people want in advance is useless, because everyone completes the form "just in case" and we get left with loads of stuff that is hard to get rid of.And Max, I take a load more of each item now (if available) than I did in the past. I probably brought over no more than 12-15 IHSH-20's. With the IHSH-72, I probably got in about 80 (and I restocked at least twice when I realised I had under estimated demand). Plus there are more retailers now who take the stuff as well.
Here's another issue. We all hated it when shirts would pop up from another brand made in the same fabric as an Iron Heart shirt. So now, in the main, we design all our own fabric. We have to estimate total demand and then get the fabric woven, if we run out, we are really stuffed as we can't just pop down to the mill and buy another roll.
I'm not defending my position or my approach, I spend long sleepless nights trying to solve this dilemma.
i think for the most part you guys are doing a bang up job
the only items i have ever missed and been bummed were due to things like really limited numbers like the black chino selvedge western ihsh69
but i believe that was a production issue and not a ordering issue
the one thing i think could help ih more is a more consistent cut across the shirt rang, every shirt has a different cut to it and i understand that some of its due to materials and how they act differently but that cant account for it all
some shirts in almost the exact same material come out completely different (20-72 for example)
just my 2 cents
