Random questions to which you seek an answer
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Anyone have pictures of Haraki-san's 'main Harley'? He posted some on his blog – looks like a rigid frame big twin?
http://shin3155.blog54.fc2.com/blog-entry-1021.html
http://shin3155.blog54.fc2.com/blog-entry-1019.html -
Although I've never handled a pair, the heavy weight denim of other brands (sammies, pbj, whatever) do not appeal to me at all. 18-19oz seems to be the threshold, and after that the other brands just add weight for weight's sake. Wearability and functionality are an after thought. I think Haraki approaches the problem from the opposite side, with functionality as the priority.
Just my observation, and pure speculation.
I asked Haraki once, what he thought of the Sammy 21oz denim. He gave me a withering look and said "I dont care, I dont play the heavy ounce game, I design for function and the weight follows from that".
Admittedly, I derailed that with the 25oz, but again this is a denim that has been designed from the ground up, it is not just the 21oz with a bulkier weft…
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The weight of it does nothing for me. I love IH purely on then innovation of approach to textile and "family" like branding approach. To be completely honest for me IH is still very young and it still has a lot of growth in construction and from the short time I've been here I already see it is always improving.
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i agree with your views jimmy.
where are the red sox fans, must be a hard month.
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Speaking as a guy who, up until earlier this year, was a confirmed Samurai wearer and would wear nothing else, I see the heavyweight denim of the two companies like this…
Samurai go for flair over function, some of their denim is truly beautiful, and they are great at adding the bells and whistles (left hand twill, coloured selvedge, patterned pocket bags, antique hardwear etc...), but they sacrifice function. They insistence on using 100% cotton thread can make their heavier jeans suffer from premature crotch blow out along the seam, and pockets that get shredded relatively quickly. However, they are now making moves to address this, and the functionality of their jeans is improving.
My perception of Iron Heart (prior to owning any) was that the jeans were amazingly constructed, but not as aesthetically pleasing as Samurai. Obviously, I now feel differently having owned a fair amount of IH products, and fully appreciate the more subtle beauty over the more obvious (and occasionally obnoxious) detailing of some of the Samurai collection.
I still love both companies, but after seeing, feeling and experiencing so much Iron Heart product, and meeting the people involved, who clearly have an enormous passion and knowledge for what they do, I do have more love for Iron Heart.
Having said that, I would still like to be buried in my Jin denim jacket, with my IHSH-33, my Busters and my Whites
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hey mega, thanks for the honest take on both companies & their takes on "heavy" denim.
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No problem, Like I say they are both great brands at the absolute top of the tree. Iron Heart simply has better quality, better design, and (corny as it sounds) is made with more love in my opinion.
Samurai's diversity is both their strength and their weakness, alot of great products, alot of not so great products.
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alot of folks have been hinting at this recently (in some private & public conversations) so I'll just say it & get it out in the open public forum:
"Iron Heart's diversity is both their strength and their weakness, alot of great products, a few not so great products."
any thoughts
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not even talking about any other brand at the moment, but i will say i have had questions about the growth of the brand & the direction they are/aren't going in. do all the new(er) products make sense? i can't really say that they do. one example is those stripped tees. they look good & i might even have one or two in my closet, but you couldn't have told me Iron Heart would be making that sort of product.
i'm pretty sure when IH first started making flannels some of their first followers said wtf, & either grew to love the product or said they aren't looking for that from the brand. i was just curious to see what thoughts, if any folks have.
just conversation is all
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Of course, there are things I just won't buy. But that's just me and my wallet speaking ::). I think Haraki-san realizes that we can't be all things to all people. As long as IH sticks to its ethos, I think we are ok.
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We have to remember that IH is a Japanese company. Haraki dreams up stuff that will appeal primarily to his market. 90% of his customers in Japan are Harley riders, the whole scene is completely different from what most of us are used to.
1) A lot of the stuff that you see only available over here is instigated by me (and you sometimes) where I think we have a gap in te western market.
2) Haraki does listen to what I need and will modify IF he agrees with it
3) In the early days of our relationship he refused to make something that I knew would sell well, but it just did not fit his aesthetic
4) When we get Triple Works off the ground again you will see a more rational approach to how we brand. For instance, the Great White and possibly the Big Blue would have been branded Triple Works…. -
i don't know if they realize that omega.
in fact, i dare say they would make Iron Heart under pants & socks if they could do it better than everyone else. i think Iron Heart currently has a very loyal core following (in a large part because of this forum & the great service rcvd from the IHUK folks) that they really attempt to cater to by making a timeless product that can take a beating. it doesn't matter if it's a coaster, a work apron, or a pair of cords.
"only well made things can endure" is a very broad statement that covers everything.
***this was typed before G put up his post, but you know me
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I think that whether the newer products "make sense" or not is very much a matter of personal taste, but what doesn't, and hasn't changed is the quality, the thought of the design, and the love and attention which goes into Iron Heart garments.
Some of new stuff might be questionable from a biker aesthetic, but could Iron Heart succeed long term if it just stuck to biker inspired clothing? Take a look at (much as I hate to mention them) Supreme, who undoubtedly started as a brand inspired by, and primarily catering for Skaters. If they had stuck with that they wouldn't have been as successful as they are now (stores in Japan and the UK), this has come at a cost of argument from their original customers questioning if the brand has "sold out" from it's skater roots. I think that the answer is not necessarily that they have sold out, more that they have aged with their clientele, and their tastes (or at least the majority). Iron Heart/ Triple Works, and any other clothing manufacturer has to do the same just to maintain their customer base.
Tastes change in the main, some items will always be classic (straight cut jeans, type 3 jackets, western shirts etc…), but you can't maintain your customer base if that is all you manufacture, when your competitors are offering more and different.
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very true seul, i'm happy to be here.
- In the early days of our relationship he refused to make something that I knew would sell well, but it just did not fit his aesthetic
- When we get Triple Works off the ground again you will see a more rational approach to how we brand. For instance, the Great White and possibly the Big Blue would have been branded Triple Works….
would love more info on 3 & i can see your logic with 4. growing pains are a good thing, means
weyou are freckin' growing** i notice i tend to write we when talkin about IH & i have to go back & correct it, but you folks do have that impact (on me at least). we'll see how this thing goes
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mega, glad you are here. you bring a lot to the conversation.
oh & you forgot to mention the IHW-01 the new Iron Heart classic (we'll see how that holds up in 5/10/15 years
i don't think Iron Heart really care about what the competition is doing. of course i really don't know, but from the product they usually put out they are going to their own wacky drum.
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I think you're right Megatron. Look at Viberg. They were making boots for lumberjacks up until 7-8 years ago. A call from Nepenthes and everything changed for them. The japanese market opened up along with a whole host of opportunities. The quality is still there but so is the diversity.
I still think one needs to be careful though not to dilute the image or qualkity. Can't see IH making that mistake as everyone involved seems aware of the pitfalls. I guess this forum has it's part to play in all that too which is what makes IH even more special in my eyes.
