Movies
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The Vanishing (1988) is brilliant. Bleak but brilliant. Didn't bother watching the remake. You can say the same thing for most things, say for example Oldboy. Didn't bother with the Hollywood remake.
However, I did love The Departed (which is a remake/reimagining) and often tell people to go watch the original; Infernal Affairs.
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@endo Not seen that one but cyberpunk/sci-fi will give it a watch.
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"Tell me, O Muse, of the man of many devices, who wandered full many ways ... " (Does this opening of the songs of the Odyssey refer to Odysseus or to Nolan?)
How do you go about it when you want to film a story that is nearly 3,000 years old—one that was handed down through song for centuries, adapted and altered countless times, and indeed already made into film before? I would give hardly anyone other than Christopher Nolan a chance of achieving an acceptable result.
But did he deliver? I'm not sure.
Two things bother me right off the bat. The cast—while impressive—is also a huge obstacle to staying immersed in the story; one recognizes so many of these faces from other roles that it is hard to picture them in the ancient world. Furthermore, the gleam of their super-white teeth seems absurd given the otherwise impressive production design.
Secondly, the film attempts—at least in my opinion—to pull off a balancing act that it doesn't quite manage. On the one hand, it is wonderfully mystical (take the Hades scene, for instance, without giving anything away); on the other, it involves somewhat run-of-the-mill action. Personally, I would have preferred it if Nolan had gone all-in on the mystical approach. Then again, perhaps that would have required a different director.
As I said, I'm not sure. What do you think?
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@endo I saw it Sunday after going back and forth an bunch of times thanks to letting the hype temporarily get to me. I really liked it. There’s far too much content to cram into a movie so pacing was naturally a challenge given the magnitude of the source material, but Nolan did an acceptable job. I liked the various ways he approached each trial in distinctly different ways. While the cast was questionable, it always was going to be, regardless of who handled it, along with the suspension of disbelief also comes along with such a retelling. It’s easy enough to get over with an open mind and a desire to let yourself be entertained and go along for the ride. To do a movie with so much that came before it is almost an impossible challenge, no one could satisfy everyone, but I found it to be just about as good as it could be.
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The film looks and sounds magnificent, but it never decides on what sort of adaptation it wants to be.
The sets and costumes all seem to strive for realism, but that realism is undermined by details that feel obviously modern - from gleaming white teeth to Jon Bernthal's bald-and-bearded look. As you say @endo, these things are important, because the rest of the film is asking to be taken as something serious and authentic.
The film is most immersive when it becomes strange and mythic, and those moments make the conventional-Hollywood-action feel ordinary in comparison. A stylised, even avant-garde interpretation might have worked better.
In terms of performances, Hathaway is very good, but Damon and Holland don't offer much apart from being Damon and Holland. Nolan’s limitations with female characters are still apparent, the dialogue lets it down in places, and some scenes are a little drawn-out.
Ultimately, Nolan is judged more harshly than most directors and he is simply held to a higher standard. Personally, the film was good, very good - but it wasn't the masterpiece that I was anticipating.
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Hmm. Interesting discussion. I'm going to dumb it down and not be critical at all. Pure vibes.
The Odyssey was fucking immense. Brilliant movie, loved every second of it, could not care less about the ridiculous smear campaign pre-launch and as for the adaption and tone - well, here's the thing. It's in the spirit of the very essence of what makes a myth, a myth. These tales were shared orally, from one generation to another before someone cared to write them down. Interpretation can be different, this is fiction based on fiction after all and if the experience is profound, then it's done its job. Even my kid, 16 years young, turns to me at the end of the movie and simply states '10 out of 10'. A near 3 hour movie and not a second wasted IMO.
On the topic of myths and how 'we' (the collective human race) tell stories - take the Brothers Grimm writing very violent and sexualised stories that then evolved into tales for children with morals and mostly happy endings before finding their way to box office musicals, often reinvented with vibrant narrative changes. This is simply what we do and by doing so we keep these 'stories' relevant for each passing generation. Maybe the message gets distorted but freedom of expression and creation is something that should always be encouraged and celebrated.
Oh dear. I've triggered myself into 'critical mode'. Placing the vibes aside for a moment...
Seen a lot of discourse and almost got into a very heated argument with someone in my family over the movie (they said they would not watch it because it's WOKE and I honestly wanted to flip a table over when this was said, angered by the sheer ignorance of it). So much of what some people assume about the Odyssey and especially the Trojan Wars is often misguided cultural references from those very same reinventions and, especially early Hollywood, questionable casting and script writing. I'm about to order The Iliad and The Odyssey books (have not read either since I was in my 20s) and I'm looking at Emily Wilson's translations. Even this act has people telling me that 'nah, that translation isn't the one you want, it's influenced by x y and z and blah blah blah'. Anyways, my point is, we often don't just enjoy something for what it is - what the creator has shared with us - and we lose ourselves in the want for a perception of it that suits are own personal desires. If that makes sense.
Turns out I didn't dumb down my opinions on this
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@Nick dude i agree with the take on Odyssey. I didn't give it enough credit in my initial post. I was thoroughly entertained and fully support an artists ability to make a story their own. If you dont like someones art - you dont like it. I DID like it in this case. It's totally subjective. I try to go into every artistic expression with zero expectations, of course the hype almost kept me from seeing it, but i stood by my principle and went, and i'm glad i did. Artists (directors) dont have to make movies for ME. This is what i hate about marketing and 'target audiences' and generating expectations for things and i, as a member of the audience, have no authority to determine if something is 'good' or not, and judgements are irrelevant. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, and may never precisely coincide with the intent of the creator.
Another note: they gave far too much away in the trailer. everybody knows the story, so its not plot spoiling, but i hated that i bulleted moments from the trailer as i watched the movie. They spoiled the look of things. Trailers really need to be more vague and sneaky than they have been lately.
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There should be no third act teasers in any trailers. I get there is tested psychology with this - I personally forget all the potential spoilers - but there have been scenes in other films ruined by knowing what's coming up. It's like Hollywood etc think everyone is stupid so 'here's pretty much all the action scenes to entice you into watching the movie'. The psychology I think is that 'we' often do forget what we've previously been teased when sat down with popcorn ready to watch. But they will never go full sneaky because I guess some people only watch movies because of trailers lol.
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@Nick shoot i wouldnt be surprise if people skipped the movie altogether cuz most trailers are just synopses of the thing and people dont have the time lol
With this one in particular, it spoiled imagery. the giants, cyclops, settings, etc...i would have preferred if all these trials had surprised me in the same way the sirens and Circe did.
The hollywood machine is just crazy. They're so disconnected from reality. Its like now they only know what numbers tell them work. they have their formula.
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Yeah. Social media generation too. Take for example what Marvel do. They have super snappy footage and then the logo and then the trailer. It's literally a trailer for a trailer. I dont listen to the radio but Capital here in London/UK also have a preview of a track (like the hook) before playing the track. Not always but when they want to let the people know 'oooh there's a banger coming up'.
Reality is, it's Capital, there are no bangers.
Digital life has trained people to have no attention span.
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@AdamJ i dont think i'd be able to let that one go
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@WhiskeySandwich at first I thought he was going down the iMDB path of "What has he been in before?!" something my girlfriend loves to do, but that's usually at the start of the film.
I think 2 hours of attention was all he had in the tank!
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The Odyssey was terrific. Of course they took some liberties with a story that has very odd moments for modern audiences, and of course it wasn’t a perfectly authentic lens into antiquity, but I thought it felt like what Homer wrote about and was just superb all around.
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Saw it yesterday in IMAX with my son. 8/10 and I’m now deaf.
We both really liked it. I think the modern dialogue was distracting to me multiple times (subjective I know) The sound was incredible but the overall volume (IMAX maybe) was just too much. I thought Nolan did a great job thematically. And agree with many of you that mystical scenes were the most powerful. I don’t know if it’s possible anymore to make a movie of this scale with actors that “disappear” into characters, but I did enjoy most of the performances. I felt like I needed a quiet closet to decompress in after the show, probably Nolan’s intention.
