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    Iron Heart Fall/Winter 2025 Collection Preview - Now Live

    Bread - What are you baking today…..

    Hobbies and Pastimes
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    • neph93N
      neph93
      見習いボス
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      @Giles:

      Some debunking….

      https://www.simonandschuster.com/c/sourdough-or-levain

      Good that.

      «Stevie Heighway on the wing!
      We had dreams, and songs to sing…»

      • Dame Vera Lynn
      last edited by 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
      • GilesG
        Giles
        IHUK Crew
        Joined:

        So, I'm converting a dried yeast Biga recipe into a sourdough starter version.  Not sure why, because the Biga is a pre-ferment anyway  🙂

        Substituted 0.64 gms of dried yeast with 11 gms of starter in the Biga itself.  With the dried yeast version, I would have tripled the volume of the Biga after 12 hours.  I'm currently on about double volume  with the starter version, after 12 hours.  Will leave it for another 12…..

        "OK face up to it - you're useless but generally pretty honest and straightforward . . . it's a rare combination of qualities that I have come to admire in you" - Geo 2011

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        • GilesG
          Giles
          IHUK Crew
          Joined:

          06:00 and the Biga had trebled in size, so about 22 hours from mixing.  Now I've done the final mix.

          With the dried yeat recipe, the bulk fermentation stage takes about 3 hours, so I'm reckoning on about 5 for the starter version.

          Boy, does it smell sour…...

          "OK face up to it - you're useless but generally pretty honest and straightforward . . . it's a rare combination of qualities that I have come to admire in you" - Geo 2011

          last edited by 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
          • GilesG
            Giles
            IHUK Crew
            Joined:

            EXTREMELY slack dough, this is going to be a mother to shape….. 🙂 🙂

            "OK face up to it - you're useless but generally pretty honest and straightforward . . . it's a rare combination of qualities that I have come to admire in you" - Geo 2011

            last edited by 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
            • GilesG
              Giles
              IHUK Crew
              Joined:

              Just popped them into the oven.  Think I will be taking out 2 pancakes  😃 😃

              "OK face up to it - you're useless but generally pretty honest and straightforward . . . it's a rare combination of qualities that I have come to admire in you" - Geo 2011

              last edited by 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
              • neph93N
                neph93
                見習いボス
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                I'm following this with interest as it partially overlaps with something I'm considering/pondering at the moment. When I have the time I will explain…

                «Stevie Heighway on the wing!
                We had dreams, and songs to sing…»

                • Dame Vera Lynn
                last edited by 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                • GilesG
                  Giles
                  IHUK Crew
                  Joined:

                  Just took a peek.  Got a small amount of oven-spring…...

                  "OK face up to it - you're useless but generally pretty honest and straightforward . . . it's a rare combination of qualities that I have come to admire in you" - Geo 2011

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                  • GilesG
                    Giles
                    IHUK Crew
                    Joined:

                    "OK face up to it - you're useless but generally pretty honest and straightforward . . . it's a rare combination of qualities that I have come to admire in you" - Geo 2011

                    last edited by 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                    • neph93N
                      neph93
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                      Looks pretty good to me. But I guess this is about taste?

                      «Stevie Heighway on the wing!
                      We had dreams, and songs to sing…»

                      • Dame Vera Lynn
                      last edited by 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                      • neph93N
                        neph93
                        見習いボス
                        Joined:

                        So my last three bakes have been the same. Two sourdoughs, one based on my spelt starter with spelt and wheat flour, the other with my rye starter and wholemeal wheat. While the essential processes are the same, they are both derived from different recipes, with different hydration, flour percentages etc. One major difference is the amount of time for the bulk ferment and the amount of starter as a percentage of total weight. In short the spelt recipe uses more starter and has a shorter bulk ferment time. However, I’m making them in tandem so the bulk ferment ends up about the same.

                        The result is that the either the spelt over proofs and doesn’t get much oven spring and the wheat is perfect, or the spelt is perfect and the wheat slightly underproofed.

                        Another thing is the difference in the starters. I’ve calmed my rye starter down, but my spelt starter seems feisty. It produces hooch relatively early in its cycle, I assume because it is burning through the fuel I’m giving it quicker. As of today I’m using less of the active starter and more flour every time I refresh it, to try and calm it a bit.

                        So it seems to me that I should start playing with the amount of starter I use in the recipes, or the amount of flour if I want to bring these two recipes to a point where I can make them in tandem, using the same timing and get the best results from both breads. This is fun.

                        But I guess that is also the challenge with your sourdough Biga @Giles. Getting the balance between the amount of starter, the amount of flour, and the fermenting time right?

                        «Stevie Heighway on the wing!
                        We had dreams, and songs to sing…»

                        • Dame Vera Lynn
                        last edited by 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                        • neph93N
                          neph93
                          見習いボス
                          Joined:

                          Here’s today’s breads at any rate. Spelt slightly overproofed:

                          Wheat pretty much perfect:

                          «Stevie Heighway on the wing!
                          We had dreams, and songs to sing…»

                          • Dame Vera Lynn
                          last edited by 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                          • GilesG
                            Giles
                            IHUK Crew
                            Joined:

                            I think the amount of starter was about correct.  The pre-ferment ended up the same volume at the end, just took about twice as long as when using dried yeast.  As far as my dough ended up, it was too wet, I am pretty sure that I did my calculations correctly to take into account how much flour and water was being added as a result of using the starter instead of the dried yeast.  Timing of everything was guesswork, and frankly I'm just not experienced enough to have an intuitive sense of when things are ready.

                            It better taste fucking good, because it was a load more aggro that using a dried yeast ferment and the results of that are some of the best tasting bread I have made.

                            "OK face up to it - you're useless but generally pretty honest and straightforward . . . it's a rare combination of qualities that I have come to admire in you" - Geo 2011

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                            • ChapC
                              Chap
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                              Great jobs @Giles @neph93 they look amazing and will for sure offer great taste… with being back to my usual working times or even a bit more I currently have absolutly no time for baking bread... which is a pity especially as G was able to get a Forkish book in his hands for me

                              God has blessed you richly, so get down on your knees and thank him. Don’t forget the less fortunate or God will personally kick your ass. I’d love to do it for him, but I can’t be everywhere. Willie Nelson

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                              • neph93N
                                neph93
                                見習いボス
                                Joined:

                                I’m probably just projecting my own pondering onto your bake, but it occurs to me that the rate of ferment is going to vary depending on the potency of the starter/yeast, and that leads to a different consistency and volume in the dough, as well as a difference in oven spring.

                                In other news there is no doubt in my mind that an autolyse phase improves the crumb of the bread…

                                «Stevie Heighway on the wing!
                                We had dreams, and songs to sing…»

                                • Dame Vera Lynn
                                last edited by 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                • GilesG
                                  Giles
                                  IHUK Crew
                                  Joined:

                                  @neph93:

                                  but it occurs to me that the rate of ferment is going to vary depending on the potency of the starter/yeast

                                  I'm sure it does, so to perfect this, I'll need a few more bakes….But if it tastes no better than the dried yeast version, I won't bother....

                                  "OK face up to it - you're useless but generally pretty honest and straightforward . . . it's a rare combination of qualities that I have come to admire in you" - Geo 2011

                                  last edited by 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                  • GilesG
                                    Giles
                                    IHUK Crew
                                    Joined:

                                    @Chap:

                                    with being back to my usual working times or even a bit more I currently have absolutly no time for baking bread… which is a pity especially as G was able to get a Forkish book in his hands for me

                                    Good news/Bad news…..

                                    "OK face up to it - you're useless but generally pretty honest and straightforward . . . it's a rare combination of qualities that I have come to admire in you" - Geo 2011

                                    last edited by 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                    • GilesG
                                      Giles
                                      IHUK Crew
                                      Joined:

                                      Whoops…...

                                      So what did I get wrong guys?

                                      "OK face up to it - you're useless but generally pretty honest and straightforward . . . it's a rare combination of qualities that I have come to admire in you" - Geo 2011

                                      last edited by 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                      • neph93N
                                        neph93
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                                        Damn, look at that!

                                        Something to do with how the starter acts on such a large mass perhaps?

                                        It’s pretty cool.

                                        «Stevie Heighway on the wing!
                                        We had dreams, and songs to sing…»

                                        • Dame Vera Lynn
                                        last edited by 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                        • SeulS
                                          Seul
                                          Joined:

                                          How does it taste though?.. A spongey, dough-ey mess or?.. Still looks delicious to me (but admittedly I'm Belgian)…

                                          last edited by 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                          • ROmanR
                                            ROman
                                            Haraki san Prodigy
                                            Joined:

                                            Water temperature???  Or what kind of treatment your water has.

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