WAKE UP AND COFFEE

weftyarn

Speaking of bottomless and learning from it:

Tamp looking good, but let’s see what the bottomless tells us…

Almost perfectly even extraction, BUT

slightly right-shifted extraction in the center
probably too densely packed puck in the left center
extraction on the sides looks perfect -> indicating the tamp was level

Looking good after a few seconds, no squirting etc…
Still slightly right-shifted center though

10 seconds into the shot: One stream of coffee, still no squirts, still slightly right-shifted
The tamp was not perfect, but absolutely doable and not „bad for the extraction“.
I could have done better with distributing the grind in the center of the puck.

Final result: 17.5g in, 40g out, 33sec
Full body, well balanced, chocolaty
Maybe a tad bitter / overextracted

Options: Reduce time / brew ratio, Grind coarser, Reduce temp

What I would do: Reduce temp (by 1deg), because I was absolutely happy with the body of the shot and don’t want to change anything with the grind / brew ratio.

goosehd

@weftyarn My hat is off to you!! Very useful information and approach to the results. I see that your ratio is 1: 2.3 and often hear that 1:2 is ideal. Do you find that the ratio is dependent on the beans used and your overall desired taste that you're looking for?

Fantastic pictures and information!! Thank you

Jens

@goosehd:

@Jens I went for the Cremina Original. It’s beautiful, very easy to use, and I like the feel of “pulling” my shot. I don’t know if I would get the pressure gauge though as I pay more attention to the flow coming out of it than the pressure I’m pulling at.

I’m still very new with this machine so you should take the pressure thing cautiously as it may become more useful with time and experience.

Great - I think I will also choose the "old" model. The hole thing about more or less no changes for 50 yrs is appealing. Thank you @goosehd

weftyarn

@goosehd:

@weftyarn My hat is off to you!! Very useful information and approach to the results.
Fantastic pictures and information!! Thank you

Much appreciated! I always love to share knowledge where I can. I wouldn't be where I am without others sharing their knowledge.

@goosehd:

@weftyarn I see that your ratio is 1: 2.3 and often hear that 1:2 is ideal. Do you find that the ratio is dependent on the beans used and your overall desired taste that you're looking for?

Absolutely! It's hard to find a "general" rule, but from what I've learned and tasted thus far,
light / fruity / complex roasts profit by more room in the cup / less compact brew ratios.
The different notes can be better separated then. They can also live with longer extractions, because the solids are harder to extract out of the bean.

Darker, more traditional "Italian" roasts work better if they're extracted compactly / with less room in the cup. In my opinion they profit from heaviness and shorter, more intense extractions.

But independent from the bean, I would really always go by the taste of the the first extraction,
without focussing too much on "external rules". What tastes good, is good.

Chap

Yes normal Cremina here as well… no nothing about the SL sorry

Jens

@Chap:

Yes normal Cremina here as well… no nothing about the SL sorry

Cool @Chap
I will go order the normal Cremina and pair it with the Niche grinder. Did not know about Olympia Cremina until you guys mentioned it in this thread - thank you!
/Jens

Alex

@weftyarn if you get some squirting on the bottomless, what are your go to things to try and fix this

Chap

After lunch coffee

weftyarn

@Alex:

@weftyarn if you get some squirting on the bottomless, what are your go to things to try and fix this

Well there’s many things that I would do depending on what I think the reason is.. here’s a few:

Coffee squirts AND generally runs through way to quickly:
Not necessarily due to bad tamping / channeling -> Try finer grind

Coffee squirts but generally runs through at the right flow rate
-> Could be channeling
-> Try to distribute better (WDTs / tooth picks - that’s what I use!)
-> Avoid knocking the portafilter to distribute grind*

*We generally tend to over-do the distributing part by knocking multiple times, using WDTs for too long, then knocking again etc… What happens sometimes is that we build clumps under the visible surface of the puck, instead of actually distributing all ground particles evenly. If that happens you’ll have channeling no matter how great and level the tamp is.

If grind and distribution don’t help: Have a look at the pump pressure and maybe reduce it (I reduced from 9.5 to 8.5 bar on my machine). It is a bit like building a sand castle at the beach: If there’s a strong wave, it doesn’t matter how strong and homogenous your castle wall is. It’ll just break. High pump pressure means stronger wave.

If none of the above helps, it might also be the ground coffee itself that is causing the issues. High grade grinders typically achieve a narrower band of grind size with a higher percentage of the ground particles being of the desired size. That by itself will lead to a more homogenous puck, reducing the risk of channeling.

I think I’m really just scratching the surface here and there might be details that I’m missing / oversimplifying. there’s definitely a lot more to it, but still, I hope it helps.

Chap

??? Are we still talking about coffee making? Sounds like rocket sience to me…

Alex

I think the knocking thing maybe what I’m doing wrong. Will try to do that less and see how it goes! Thanks!

Alex

@Chap:

??? Are we still talking about coffee making? Sounds like rocket sience to me…

What, you’re surprised people go all in on their hobbies? On this forum?!

goosehd

Are you guys using a dosing funnel or is there a trick not to get grinds everywhere?

Chap

@Alex:

@Chap:

??? Are we still talking about coffee making? Sounds like rocket sience to me…

What, you’re surprised people go all in on their hobbies? On this forum?!

Nope just trying hard to not get deeper into that espresso thing