Viberg
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Serious question, why are Viberg boots almost twice the price of Whites boots? What makes them worth double the money? So far as I see they use the same materials, they are both well crafted, but I have heard the Vibergs are finished "neater". I know when you operate at the price point that both companies do then price can be a moot point, but I am interested in perspectives.
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It's because they're Canadian. Damn metric system.;)
Seriously, though… I have nothing useful to contribute. I'll go away now.
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hype & people are willing to pay the price. if folks protested & didn't purchase the price would either drop or they would make less shoes/boots to meet the new demand.
foxy those boots are the shit. pretty sure i said it last time i saw them, but it is worth saying every time they are posted
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I honestly don't buy that MM, Whites have just as much hype online as Viberg from what I see. I honestly don't understand it, it's like people know that both brands represent a very similar level of quality, craftsmanship, and materials, but just accept that they have to pay twice as much for Viberg.
Look at it this way, Iron Heart and Samurai operate in very similar markets, and have a similar level of popularity amongst the online community of people interested in purchasing Japanese raw denim. If one of these brands over a period of time doubled their price, while the other didn't, would you expect their market share to remain the same?
I am in no way having a dig at Viberg by the way. Their boots and shoes look incredible, and I would absolutely love to own a pair, but I cannot justify paying double the price of Whites to do so. Hence the question I guess.
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One story that I have heard was that Viberg changed their wholesale currency one day/night from CAN$ to US$ without adjusting the the actual amount. This must have happened a year or two ago…
I get the idea that Viberg is operating much stronger in the "foreign" markets (Japan, Asia, Europe) than in North America. In Japan they can be seen as small batch, made-to-order predominantly for specific shops, in a lot of cases in HH. The resulting wholesale price was not low to start with, but the retail price for these shoes are/were probably out of the control of Viberg. I can image that their customers kept telling them that keeping the wholesale down would be stupid.
personally, I think the current price is justified from a European perspective.
I don't live in America surrounded by the Wallmarts or Levi's of this world trying to convince the consumer that good pair of jeans has to cost only $19.95 (or $49.95) and that market share is the end of all things. America has completely twisted conception of pricing with devastating consequences when taken too far.
If I want good quality in high labor cost countries at small batch production (manufacturing) I better be ready to pay for it or watch it being outsourced to wherever.I can not speak for Viberg or White's, but I do understand that White's might not be able to raise their wholesale/retail prices in America since their American customers would not understand/appreciate such a move, justified or not. Viberg might have been in a more comfortable position allowing them to ignore the feeling of their (few) American customers.
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Thanks Foxy, that actually makes a lot of sense. I guess it's just a matter of where the respective brands see the core of their custom developing. So if the majority of Vibergs custom is overseas, then it makes the pricing easier to apply, and even somewhat justified. I now feel a little sorry for the North American consumers of Viberg products though, it seems that they have been kind of forgotten about with their (relatively) new found popularity in the East
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Another thing to consider is the size of operations.
I get the feeling that White's might be the bigger company with higher turnover.Viberg might be smaller with higher overhead cost. They have relocated their workshop lately which can be costly. Maybe they are getting ready to expand and increase volume. They certainly have positioned themselves nicely for that.
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While I appreciate all that, and it is understandable, they are still selling a very similar product for double the price. I guess the consumer has to make a decision, and fortunately it appears to be paying off for Viberg. In a specialised market, it is easier to justify price increase, as your consumer is likely to be somewhat less "price conscious".
However, in any industry, increasing price to fund expansion is an extremely dangerous strategy surely? You risk alienating your consumer base, and leaving yourself with the cost of expansion, and no customers to help pay you out of it. In manufacturing having a healthy order book is key to expanding the business, and from the moves we have seen from Viberg their order book must be pretty strong.
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But in this case they aren't selling just a working boot. It is a luxury product which mainly transports an image!…of course they have to be functional but owners want to show what they have.
Luxury products will be kept bare to increase the demand.They don't have to compare (cost-benefit ratio) with working boots! -
In any case - I would be careful comparing with a product that competes in the domestic market in the US, especially if it is by a US domestic company.
take the Levi's or Nike's of this world - they won't sell their products at US domestic prices in most of their other markets. They can use the higher margins to subsidize their US operations. Some companies actually have to do this in order to stay healthy…
Trying to understand pricing and positioning in the US market is often fruitless and not always totally obvious.
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But in this case they aren't selling just a working boot. It is a luxury product which mainly transports an image!…of course they have to be functional but owners want to show what they have.
Luxury products will be kept bare to increase the demand.They don't have to compare (cost-benefit ratio) with working boots!But cant exactly the same statement be made about Whites?
Foxy, all your points make perfect sense, I guess my view of like for like is a little too pragmatic for a comparative debate.
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One story that I have heard was that Viberg changed their wholesale currency one day/night from CAN$ to US$ without adjusting the the actual amount. This must have happened a year or two ago…
This wouldn't explain much of the price difference- typically, the Canadian dollar has been about 75 cents against the US dollar, and currently is right at 1 to 1. Could certainly be part of it, though.
Another thing to consider is the size of operations.
I get the feeling that White's might be the bigger company with higher turnover.White's is definitely larger. Probably a lot larger, though I don't have numbers to back that up. That's going to give them economies of scale that Viberg can't match. I'm pretty sure White's boots use more automation in the production, which will lower costs, as well.
Most folks don't realize it, but White's really does still make boots worn for serious work use, not just the desk driving Semi Dress model most of us buy. When I lived in Arizona, the wildlands firefighters wore White's and nothing else. They were considered essential equipment. The Smoke Jumpers are actually worn by Smoke Jumpers. I think that knowledge, that their boots are truly used in the field and are regarded as as essential work gear, not a luxury fashion statement, drives White's and their pricing choices. While Viberg can focus on $1000 Japan only special edition limited runs, White's can't neglect their working class domestic market; not if they plan to stay in business long term.
Again, I don't have numbers to back this up, and I'm no expert on either company's business model, but that's my thinking.
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But in this case they aren't selling just a working boot. It is a luxury product which mainly transports an image!…of course they have to be functional but owners want to show what they have.
Luxury products will be kept bare to increase the demand.They don't have to compare (cost-benefit ratio) with working boots!But cant exactly the same statement be made about Whites?
As far as I know they were offered in workwear stores. That means they want to get serious as producer of working boots!
Just my expierenes! -
I always thought (maybe mistakenly it would appear) that origins and background of both Viberg and Whites (and Wesco) were all pretty similar. That they all made real workboots, used by guys who worked in real hardcore environments (firemen, loggers, ranchers etc..), guys for whom the boots were an essential piece of equipment rather than a fashion accessory.
I also was under the impression that all these brands had made similar concessions to fashion, due to their popularity in Asia, and with online communities who value authenticity from their brands. The concessions to which I refer being collaborations, rare leathers, and models like the semi dress, the oxfords, and other things that would get you laughed out of a forest fire, or ranch. Now we (I) appear to be digressing into a brand ethos debate, which is perhaps best served on a different thread…..
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viberg is proper workwear, they have two audiences they cater to, one is the fashion set & the other are working class folks mostly in canada. the prices reflect the audience. i mean they have two different websites:
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Looking at that, and kind of thinking of Viberg as two separate brands does make a lot of sense, but still does not fully explain my original question. This is the key example for me…..
A while ago I was agonising between the following two shoes..
They are both hand made (to the best of my knowledge), made mainly for the fashion crowd (me and you), and are made from Horween CXL leather with a Vibram sole. One is £220, one is £425. Why?
I take your point about the two different forces of Viberg, I take all Foxy's points about expansion, currencies, target markets etc… But still, why? Surely almost 100% price difference is just too much?
I think that I should again state that I am not making a personal criticism of Viberg, on the contrary I love their stuff and would love to own a pair. I just want to understand why?
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they charge that much cause they can. i know it's a simple answer & it is natural for us to over think things, but don't over think it.
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Well, I guess if that's it then that's it. I suppose in a way, because I like Viberg's products, I kind if hoped that wasn't the answer…because I don't like that answer. I don't like that companies and brands charge what they like simply because they can, makes me think of energy prices here in the UK and how much I hate the energy provider companies....a different argument entirely.
