thanks Lamdog, I wear a 30 in the Californians Lot 54, but the measurements for 30 looked rather big, almost 33.  I guess a soak will shrink it down to around 30?

@lamdog123:

anyone order this junky 7161?

http://blog-jkstyle.jugem.jp/?eid=1309

lamdog or others, what sizing did you get on your 7161s?  how much will it shrink in the waist?