Random Announcements
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Please Beatle – I know Till pretty well. Let's drop this. I don't think Till wants you to take actions against yourself. I think he's just a bleeding liberal...he doesn't embrace censorship, and his views reign true even in the hot political arena. Everyone is entitled to their beliefs. Honestly, though Beatle -- I agree with your stance (not Till's anymore) -- after you explained it. I didn't get it at first, but I definitely get it now. If this were a bathing suit forum, there would be different rules of course. But it's not. So, I totally respect where you (Beatle) are coming from and this new discipline shouldn't be difficult for me.
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shubs - I really know and believe that we´re cool…if I said something in the wrong way (and I know I don´t use a lot of words to say something)- you already received my apologies...
I´ve dropped it a long time ago - but it obviously bothers Till a great deal so for honesty´s sake I would like to know what he meant with it being time to "take action".
If being a mod means that one can´t speak their mind, I´d rather not be one. Or maybe on a bikini forum - actually sounds like fun....We can do anything
http://bybeatle.com -
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Glad you're back Shubs, us oldies gotta stick together !
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Glad you're back Shubs, us oldies gotta stick together !
TripleSimon – oldies but goodies ! We're like fine wines...humans definitely improve with age !
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In the practice of tolerance, one's enemy is the best teacher.
So Tfar - what actions would you like me to take against myself ?
Beatle, I don't know if there is any personal action required. And I would never allow myself to tell anybody directly what action they should take "against" themselves; not even if I considered that person an "enemy".
Considering cultural standards, given this forum is operated from a country with a famous page three, for a brand from a country where they sell used girls' panties in vending machines on the street, and given that the mod in question is from a country where FKK (nudism) is a way of life - I was truly surprised to see moderation that would be strict for even American standards where a wardrobe malfunction can cause more uproar than torture in Guantanamo. But probably even the Americans here (!) would agree that if the world were to adopt American standards of prudery, it would not be much fun anymore and only lead to more hypocrisy. So much for the bigger picture.
Smaller picture:
If something irks you on a personal level than that should be said on a personal level and not with mod authority. If as a mod something comes to your attention, e.g. a member complaining about something, then you might take action as a mod if you think it is warranted. I don't know which was the case here. But if something irks you on a personal level and you think this is bad for the forum as a whole and then you take mod authority to deal with it, this is where we are getting into a grey zone.So as a mod one has more power to suppress the opinion of others. That comes with more responsibility to double check one's own opinion (or perhaps cross check with other mods) before speaking out or taking action, particularly if a "forum political" reason is used.
If I utter my opinion nothing happens, if a mod utters his/her opinion and acts on it something will happen. The mod opinion has guaranteed consequences if uttered. The mod is judge and executive force in one person. So a mod should always be able to speak their mind. But if they are speaking only their own mind and then acting on it as a mod or not considering the consequences a mod's own opinion will have, that's problematic. Actual rules being absent it might be better to err on the side of too much tolerance than on the side of too much authority.
At the same time, I tell myself to be tolerant and not leave the forum just because there was a single incident of what I perceived as unreasonable moderation, that might not have been perceived that way by others. Overall this is a very civil place and not over moderated at all which is why I like it and would like to keep it that way, where as a normal user I don't really have to double check my opinion before I post it.
Finally, if it were a bathing suit forum, the rules would need to be stricter because the threshold of vulnerability would be much lower. But not being able to compliment one's butt on a jeans forum is too strict (given that the main criterion of how a jeans fits is how it makes your butt look). This is where PC kills the discussion.
If I don't post many fit pics it is not for lack of compliments on my butt here (I prefer those in the real world where it matters) but because it's a hassle to go outside, set up the tripod, put the pictures on the computer, resize them, upload them and insert them into a post. Unfortunately, there is no real way to make that easier, even more so since we abandoned the integrated hosting function.
Till
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Till has made some very good points here. Mods have a lot of power…and because of that, they should be careful to not allow personal agendas enter into their decision making. They need to be as objective as humanly possible. In the latest fiasco pertaining to my "meaty ass" comment in evo, for me -- the biggest problem was profound confusion !! I think I said "I don't get it, but I will abide". And Till's followup comments to mine revealed his own confusion with the whole matter. I was like, What The Fuck ???? I was utterly dumbfounded about Beatle's possible reasoning and intentions. And until Beatle explained her reasons to me over a personal email, I was confused and hurt. Beatle has already conceded that the whole incident would have been better handled via a personal PM to me rather than publicly on the forum. And I'm sure she'll be more careful next time.
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DougNg, it's good to know that mods don't act alone. That provides a good check-and-balance – keeps things objective and prevents power-crazed freak decisions.
In any event, I think I've made it clear already...I think the latest moderation against me is reasonable and I will respect the new rules.
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I was in SENY yesterday and met a British guy by the name of "Indigo"
We must've just missed each other, I was in there on Sunday as well
DAMN! I will be there again tomorrow but I am sure you will be working… And Shubs, we all miss you and love your ass as hectic said. I have never been offended by anything you have ever said. Good luck manana!!!
Censorship = DEATH!
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Thanks for your warm "welcome backs" everyone ! PS. I will definitely be a repeat SuFu customer. I wouldn't have tried SuFu were it not for Seul and DougNg's shared positive experiences. I tried my SuFu-purchased Iron Heart Indigo Cyclists, Sugar Cane Okinawa, and Samurai S0500XX on tonight. Of course, I knew that the Iron Hearts would be right on the money since I already own those in a W28, both in Black and Indigo. But the Sugar Cane Okinawa raw in a W29 and the Samurai S0500XX "one soak" in a W28 (both 15 inches in the waist) proved to be right on the money too. I'm currently hot washing all three at the moment. Despite Giles's warning, I'll likely hot tumble dry all 3 tonight as well – inside out -- just to get max shrinkage. Anyway. I wouldn't have chosen different sizes were I to buy the Samurais and Sugar Canes brand new -- from BIG and/or Self Edge. Guess what ? The Sammies and Sugar Cane's inseams were already altered too ! Trust me...I'll be going the SuFu route again ! As for lighter-weight vs. heavier-weight denim -- the Iron Hearts stand alone in their insane heaviness. But you know what ? The Sugar Cane and Samurais feel pretty fucking solid in their own right...very crispy, crunchy and raw. I have no regrets. Though I won't dip lower than 14.5 oz, I have no problem with sub-21oz denim at all.
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see, there is more out there that is worth exploring
hehehe, happy they fit well Shubbz -
Tfar has no clue what he´s talking about. evo thread is about evolution of jeans, not about bodies.
Shubs - I do and always think first about something being my personal agenda or whether this is important to the standards of this Forum.
And as far as I´m concerned neither sufu nor mynudies nor stylegeist would allow this amount of non related posts in a thread.
Which is why tfar ´s pointing out that my censorship was prude is totally missing the point. I was giving shubs a hint to minimize her talk about bodies and beauty because it has no real meaning for this particular thread - if she were to post herself right here naked and eating a banana I wouldn´t even care.
And Till, I wish you would undergo the same principles of considering what your posting before you post it. Never expect more of others than you do of yourself.
We can do anything
http://bybeatle.com -
oh - and difference between censorship verses moderation - deleting a post verses posting a suggestion openly
We can do anything
http://bybeatle.com -
^ i think sufu moderation isnt very strict, but then again, most of us on the 'FU have been around the forums and arent into really chopping it up as it happens here. Sufu is like a business meeting with flame here and taunts there, but it really doesnt get off topic. *and if it does, damn, moderators are super fast to catch that sheet. and mynudies is friendly on the slight off topics, but then again, there is such a large amount of people on there that the threads never really get slow or congested; it flows rather nicely. Mynudies to me is like the business lunch, friendly but business oriented. And here… its a bit of an office party; which isnt a bad thing, its just not as formal as sufu and mynudies. I think that what i am basically trying to say is that, in my experience the past few years, the threads seem to keep themselves on topic, but the threads are also loaded with thread veterans, so ummm, i guess i'll leave it like that.
